Innate Wisdom Podcast

What It's About:

Join Loren Sofia, Functional Fertility Coach and owner of Innate Fertility, and Arden Cartrette, Certified Birth and Bereavement Doula, and Trauma Support Specialist. In this episode, you’ll learn about:

-Arden’s journey to becoming bereavement doula
-What is a bereavement doula & how one can support you
-Why miscarriage is such a taboo topic in today’s society?
-Learning how to listen and be comfortable with silence
-The reality of loss and death
-The misconceptions about miscarriage
-The side effects & impact of loss
-What the grieving process can look like
-What conventional medicine misses when it comes to miscarriage
-Miscarriage & what to expect when experiencing one
-Arden’s top recommendations to support yourself as you miscarry
-How to honor your baby
-And much more

 

Transcript:

[00:00:00] Loren: Welcome to the Innate Wisdom Podcast. I'm your host, Loren Sophia, healer of my own fertility and health struggles, mother, functional fertility coach to thousands of women, and owner of Innate Fertility. I believe your body is innately wise, and so is your fertility. Sometimes we just need the tools to unlock it in abundance.

I'm honored to guide you through each episode where we'll cover not just fertility, but how to rediscover the innate wisdom of your body. Restore your connection with your physiology, bioenergetics, and metabolism, and get back in touch with Mother Nature and ancestral traditions.

In today's episode, I'm speaking with Ardyn Kartrit, certified birth and bereavement doula and trauma support specialist. She's also known as the miscarriage doula on Instagram. This episode is dear to my heart for many reasons. First, as somebody who specializes in fertility and preconception, miscarriage is something that I inevitably come across.

The most quoted statistic is that it happens to one in four pregnancies, but if you actually speak to midwives and doulas, it's much higher than that, as high as one in two confirmed pregnancies. And when you start to think about the pregnancies that go unconfirmed, well, you know, it might be actually much higher than that too.

So, if you're on your trying to conceive journey, this is absolutely not to discourage you. But whether it's your first baby or your second, third or fourth, you may have experienced pregnancy loss or are in the process of experiencing it. And I just want you to feel seen. That said, for some reason, the support available to you, or any woman going through this, is abysmal.

And it's something that is rarely spoken about. Remember, the statistics I just mentioned? It happens to a lot of women, and most women won't ever say anything about it. And it's even taboo to speak about, which just goes to show you how unspoken this thing is. And if you're using the conventional medical system, miscarriage can be even more traumatizing than it already is.

This is something that I've personally worked really hard to change, but Arden has too, and I'm so grateful that people like her exist, and I'm so excited about our conversation because of this. In this episode, we're going to discuss the misconceptions around miscarriage, what to expect when you're experiencing one, how to support yourself through one, our own personal loss stories, and so much more.

I want you to know that if you're experiencing loss or have experienced loss that you are absolutely not alone. I'm here for you and Arden is here for you and so are the many women that have gone through this too. And hopefully the information in this episode meets you where you're at and supports you in ways that you didn't even know you needed.

All of this said, it kind of goes without saying, but I'll say it anyway. I do want to make sure that you know that the content in this episode may be triggering. So please, it's here for you if and when you're ready. Now on to the episode. Welcome everyone back to another episode of the Innate Wisdom podcast.

And I'm super excited and honored to welcome Arden from the Miscarriage Doula on today's episode. Welcome Arden. Hi, thank you so much for having me. Thank you so much for being here. I am such an admirer of your work and I think it's just so important, especially, you know, coming from the fertility space myself.

And I think it's, you know, the work that you're surrounded with is something that doesn't get enough you know, light, spotlight, or it's, you know, something that people tend to kind of shy away from. And so I'm super excited about today's conversation because I think it will be really powerful and helpful for a lot of women out there.

[00:04:01] Arden: Yeah, sadly, uh, I don't think society is comfortable with the uncomfortable, so they like to not talk about things that are, you know, that are kind of dark and morbid and terrible things that are happening to people. Um, they like to shy away from that. 

[00:04:15] Loren: Yeah, it's, it's a, an avoidant trait, uh, so to speak. I, I appreciate, you know, you championing that work because it's, Of course.

Serving a population of women that really need it. So, well, just in case anyone listening is not familiar with your work, would you mind sharing more about, you know, what, who you are and what you're all about? 

[00:04:38] Arden:  Yeah, sure. Well, um, as you said, my name is Arden. I am in North Carolina, but I work with people all over the world as a bereavement doula.

But I focus on pregnancy loss and I have actually been doing this work for many years, but didn't realize what I was doing, if that makes any sense. Um, I started a fertility blog in 2017 because my husband and I were trying to conceive and it wasn't happening and I felt alone. I felt really depressed. I felt embarrassed.

And so I started blogging. I'm a creative writer. by nature. That's usually how I process things. And I made an Instagram for the blog and I met the most amazing women who were all like looking for support on Instagram as well. So through my fertility journey, I blogged. I made, uh, friends in the infertility community.

And then we got pregnant in 2018 after a year and a half of trying to conceive. And I went into that pregnancy thinking like, Oh, somebody doesn't experience infertility and loss. You know, those two things don't happen to a single person. And I still was so naive. So then. That pregnancy sadly was a missed miscarriage.

It was a situation where we went in for the first ultrasound and we were basically given the news of this doesn't look great, but we can't say for sure that this is a miscarriage come back in a week. And then we did three weeks of pregnancy limbo, as I call it, because every week they thought maybe they saw some growth, but they weren't sure.

And it was agony. Uh, I. I opened up about it through my blog. I still wasn't super public. The blog was actually anonymous until I had my first miscarriage. Um, so having my first miscarriage, I was physically 11 weeks pregnant. I tried to find any information online. I think I googled every possible key term you could possibly think of.

I looked on forums. I searched high and low for somebody to tell me what to expect, because I was really scared. And everything just said a heavy period. And I thought to myself, well, maybe I can handle that. Maybe that'll be fine. But the more I thought about it, the less I wanted to do it. So I did talk to my doctor about having, um, a D and E, because it would actually be cheaper than having a D and C in an OR.

And so we scheduled that, but because the universe just laughs at me for some reason, the night before my scheduled D and E, I actually had my miscarriage at home. And my experience having my miscarriage at home awoke some part of me, of like, Nobody told me that this was birth in the first trimester and nobody told me that this would cause me trauma.

Nobody offered me resources, support. My doctors didn't even call me. You know, I had no follow up. I felt so isolated and I was really angry about that. So through my blog, I started, I put my face on the blog. I no longer was anonymous. I started talking very loudly about miscarriage. I wrote my story in detail, like in in grave detail.

That is hard. I don't think I've re read it to this day because it's You know, it's hard to relive and I just didn't want to stay quiet about it. And so I started talking very loudly about miscarriage. I did go on to have a second miscarriage, which only made me angrier and louder. And so from my second miscarriage, I basically started telling people on Instagram, if you learn that you're having a miscarriage and you want to know what to expect, Ask me and I will tell you every detail.

I will give you my phone number, you could call me the bill of the night, I don't care. And so I actually started becoming a miscarriage doula without realizing that's what I was doing. I was just kind of lending a helping hand. My second miscarriage was even more traumatic than my first because I thought I knew what I was doing.

But every miscarriage is different. And I did not expect that. So again, I felt very blindsided. And to, to fast forward that way, I don't, I know I can ramble about my story forever. We did a bunch of testing. We learned literally nothing. And my doctor was like, let's just try and get you pregnant again. So we did fertility medications and I did get pregnant again.

And I had my first living son from that pregnancy. We did a couple of things different, but nothing that, for sure, you know, banks on anything. And pregnancy after loss was yet again, another really difficult time that I felt like nobody prepared before. And I couldn't relate to other pregnant people. I felt really alone again.

So after he was born, it was the beginning of the pandemic. And I finally felt like, because I had a living child in my arms, I felt ready to really give people the support that I wanted to give them, but I kind of held back because of my own triggers. So I started the coursework to be a birth and bereavement doula, thinking I would help people through pregnancy after loss, because I didn't realize that I could help people through miscarriage.

And through my schooling, I realized that there's, you know, even less about first and second trimester losses. A lot of the bereavement side of my schooling was stillbirth and infant loss, which is also very needed, but there was a gap missing, and there's a lot of people in that gap who need support. So I embarked on learning as much as I possibly can.

Something about me is anything I and remotely interested in, I will learn to a T. I love research. I love reading. And then I also had my own experiences that kind of covered almost every basis. And so in December of 2020, I started the miscarriage doula, where I just basically was like, I will meet with you virtually and prepare you for loss or help you process loss.

And it's grown into, Sadly, a very big, uh, resource for a lot of people. We have groups, we do one on ones. I also now provide education for other doulas that way they can support people through miscarriage. So it kind of snowballed from my own experience into what it is today. But it took five years to really be comfortable to give my full support to people.

[00:10:46] Loren: Thank you for sharing that. That's beautiful. And, uh, I think a lot of the most beautiful things end up coming from the most painful things. Yeah. And this is certainly one of those situations and, um, you know, you're offering that extension to other women going through what you know you've been through.

And it's just, again, it's so needed because It's, as we said, it's just something that's completely avoided or, you know, kind of skirted around. And, um, I, I so appreciate, you know, this kind of, even though, you know, you experienced such great loss, there was still a birth of some other kind happening in the background too.

[00:11:31] Arden: Yeah. 

[00:11:31] Loren: Which is a different way to look at it and definitely not the same, but yeah, it's, it's so complicated

[00:11:36] Arden:. And I think I talk about this with people a lot where. People feel conflicted because maybe they feel closer to other people in their life because of loss or grief, or maybe they feel closer to a community.

Um, maybe they learned something about their, uh, fertility through having a loss, and they wouldn't have known that if they didn't have a loss. Like, there's so many elements of where we can, uh, grow or learn. And it's complicated because of course we don't want to go through loss to get there. Um, but I, I say pretty, pretty strongly that I like who I am today versus who I was before I experienced loss.

I'm a better human. I'm a better mother. I, I mean, overall, like I just feel like I'm a better version of myself. I was naive and uneducated and I had to, I have no idea of any of this stuff, and while that's a privilege in its own way, I do, sadly, like the empathy that I gained from it. As morbid as that sounds.

[00:12:37] Loren: Yeah, absolutely. Um, I myself have experienced a loss some time ago and I felt the same way. It was just no one could really prepare you for what you're actually going to experience and was just, it was very lonely also, but you know, the people that I found it really difficult. This is actually the most difficult part about it.

I found that the people who I shared it with A lot of them had their own opinions and projections. And, you know, trying to, the, the, the way of like navigating the situation was, it was completely not what I needed or not what I needed to hear. There was also this sense of entitlement from certain family members about when I told them and um, how I told them and like, Oh, I can't believe you didn't tell me until now.

And so crazy. It was just, it was mind blowing. In so many ways, not just the emotional and physical pain, but also just the social aspect. And I also had really positive experiences too. You know, I made connections with friends that I have today because They experienced the same exact thing and they felt the same exact way and you were able to, you know, really connect with somebody who knows exactly what you've been through.

And, um, that was really powerful, I felt too, but it was just so interesting and, um, I don't think anyone could have prepared me for what exactly was going to happen, even though I knew so much about loss as well. Uh, so I feel like it was a really honestly a valuable lesson for me as well in the way that I show up for my clients too and I do feel like I'm a better person because of it as well.

And again, you know, it doesn't diminish the loss itself and the hurt and the pain. Um, this is just how I've chosen to process it. 

[00:14:39] Arden: Yeah, no, I completely agree. And I've learned that people Will say anything except for just like, I'm sorry, that sucks. They will try to fix it, they will try to diagnose you, they will tell you to stay positive.

In a recent support group that I held, we talked about exactly what you shared of how family was like, my gosh, why didn't you tell me? Like, um, I didn't even know you were pregnant. Why didn't you tell me about your pregnancy? And like, it's so bizarre that as humans, we naturally make things about ourselves.

And I think that before I experienced infertility and loss, I think I did that. I mean, in conversations, I think I thought I was relating to somebody, or adding in my two cents, and I thought it was welcomed, because that person was having a conversation with me. And that's, that's true. Not really the way that the world works, right?

Like, we can have conversations with somebody where we just listen. And we don't provide any information other than our, like, undivided attention and support. But again, we're just, we're so uncomfortable. We're uncomfortable with death. We're uncomfortable in silence. Um, I think loss makes us get a little bit more comfortable with those things.

[00:15:53] Loren: Yeah, and it's almost like opening up this other, I don't know, I feel like it opened up this other layer. It expands you in some way, whether or not you want to be expanded, you know, yeah, it's not my choice, but you know, you do have this sort of expanded perspective and yeah, it's, you're able to kind of navigate those situations as well, or those topics a little with a little more ease.

just experience too, which, you know, sometimes just experience is illuminating and so powerful. So even if it's not the one you wanted, but, uh, I, I so appreciate that. And, um, yeah, I think it's, this is why we're here and chatting today. 

[00:16:40] Arden: So, well, and, and thank you for sharing about your loss. I think you mentioned it was some time ago, but, um, And I think that another misconception about loss is people think that there's like a certain time frame where it's like their loss is no matter, like, it's no longer worthy of being the drive for something or hurting them or feeling grief from it.

Um, my first loss was now five and a half years ago and I, I could still be brought to tears over just reliving the night that I had my miscarriage. And it's oftentimes that in doing this work. I'm triggered. And I need a second, you know, um, I, I think that loss doesn't leave us. And I even have people who are maybe a month after loss and they're like, it's been a month.

Why am I still so sad? And I'm like, because time does not fix this. You know, this has happened to you and it's an everyday effort to cope. So I love that people continue to speak about loss, even though it's been longer than the two to four week, you know, time period that I feel like society gives us to grieve.

[00:17:44] Loren: Yeah, it's, it's honestly ridiculous. I think it should be considered an actual, you know, I think if you're working in the modern, I guess, system, you're, you're not even given, you're given three days, I think, to, to grieve if you lose. Somebody, uh, to go to a funeral, uh, but I don't even think that's enough time.

And then when you're, you know, with child and you lose, it's just, it doesn't match up for me. Um, and it makes so much sense because there's a lot of literature coming out that also just shares. women who have experienced loss previously have a high likelihood of having PTSD for a while. They have a high likelihood of having depression, psychosis, but especially PTSD.

And, you know, I think I personally still have some. It's something that I've worked through. But it's just something that you Again, like you said, it doesn't really go away. It's just something that you learn how to cope with. You maybe see things in a different light. You have ebbs and flows. It's never linear.

It sticks around longer than I think most people would like to admit. 

[00:18:58] Arden: It does. And, and I, I think I know if we're thinking of the same study, because there's a study I often reference of people who tell me that they are feeling better. Like symptoms of postpartum anxiety and depression after a miscarriage, because I firmly believe that we are postpartum after pregnancy loss and that we go through all of the same symptoms, which I found very triggering and having my first living son.

Cause I was like, Whoa, I have had some of these things before in that study. If I recall correctly, it's like they do it increments of three, six, nine. Yeah. And then I think I get it 12 months and there was like a spike at the sixth and then nine month, which is similar to how postpartum anxiety and depression is diagnosed.

It's usually spiked between six and nine months because it's very hormone driven. And so I fully believe that a lot of people suffer from PTSD. I was diagnosed with PTSD after my second loss, but it was definitely, uh, a lot of what. What drove me to get diagnosed was for my first loss, and it was something that took a really long time to work through.

I'm still in therapy. It comes up whenever I have my period, you know, it's, it's one of those things that doesn't just leave us. And I'm very thankful for the doctor who pointed out that I had signs of PTSD because I would have never asked for help for that. 

[00:20:13] Loren: Oh, wow. That's really great that you were able to get that kind of support.

Because I feel like even doctors in a doctor setting, at least the ones that I saw after my loss, just to kind of check in. Yeah. It was, they were all so super avoidant. They are. And just kind of almost embarrassed. They, you know, the questions that I had, they were kind of like, They turned red and tried to answer the questions as, as quickly as possible.

And I was just like, okay, if I can't even talk to you about this, who am I going to talk to? You know, like, it was just, um, very fascinating to go through the, Medical system. Medical, I mean, personally, I haven't had the greatest experience with the medical system, so I try to avoid it as much as possible, but I just, you know, I wanted to make sure, I wanted to do a couple of things just to make sure post loss, like, making sure I didn't have any infection of some kind.

Yeah, isn't it crazy you have to ask for that? 

[00:21:14] Arden: Like, yes. I was never offered a follow up either. It was a primary care physician. that I saw about, um, not being able to sleep. I had gone many nights without being able to sleep because whenever I closed my eyes, I saw blood and I had like all of these really severe symptoms.

And she recommended that I see a therapist. And luckily for me, the therapist that I saw Was, um, well, she's a psychiatrist and she's still my psychiatrist today, which is amazing. And, uh, she's experienced loss. She experienced infertility. So she was very empathetic to it from the very beginning. And I sadly think that that, that was key because other people definitely downplay it. I've even had OB's today where, uh, with my second living son, I struggled with some of my, um, PTSD triggers in that. And they were just like, Oh, well, that doesn't really make sense because this pregnancy is different. And I was like, you don't understand the way a brain works when it's traumatized.

Um, so it, it can be, it can be really difficult and it sucks that it's so difficult. 

[00:22:20] Loren: Yeah. Even, um, This pregnancy too. I've had, I'm, I don't know if you know, I'm, uh, eight and a half months pregnant right now. Oh my gosh. 

[00:22:29] Arden: I could never tell from your face. If I were, if I were doing this, eight and a half months pregnant, I looked like a balloon. Uh, you look great. 

[00:22:37] Loren: Oh, thank you. Um, I've felt really amazing. Um, but you know, Uh, as much as I've felt physically well, and I think I've learned a lot of lessons and one of the, the hardest for me has been learning to mother myself, but also just pregnancy after loss. As you've mentioned at the very beginning, um, it's been, you know, also just knowing how much I know as well. 

[00:23:05] Loren: I feel like that has been very difficult to just knowing so much about fertility and pregnancy and, you know, All of these things itself can, uh, throw kind of like, I don't, I don't know how to describe it, but ignorance is kind of bliss in a sense. 

[00:23:20] Arden: Yeah. It’s very hard. 

[00:23:20] Loren: And the opposite can be maddening. Um, for sure there's that, but also just having experienced a loss previously, you know, I think that there's another layer of like a lot of work that I've really, or, or things that I've contended with, uh, mentally, uh, during this pregnancy that maybe, you know, Women who get pregnant for the first time, and it goes, you know, they are able to deliver a living child without loss previously is different mentally in a lot of ways, so that's been very interesting for me as well.

[00:23:56] Arden: I wish I could shed light on it, but my experience is the same where my losses happened before my living children and my entire pregnancy. I remember thinking. Do other people feel this way? Like, are people afraid on a daily basis? Are they worried to say when the baby comes instead of if the baby comes?

If they're worried about all of these things that literally make my doctor, like you said, turn red. I think I experienced it the most in pregnancy after loss where doctors felt really uncomfortable with my concerns and questions. And knowing too much is definitely, it's a good thing, right? Because we can advocate for testing if we want it or like other things, but it also.

In my experience, harmed my mental health to no, as much as I know, uh, with my fourth pregnancy because ignorance is bliss and we don't have the opportunity to be ignorant anymore because we've been through too much and we know too much.

[00:24:52] Loren: Loren here. I hope the content in this episode has been resonating with you. If you're trying to conceive and currently looking for support in the midst of pregnancy, of a miscarriage or looking for ways to prevent it in the future, I want to let you know that I'm here for you and that I have created resources to help you specifically.

I want you to be equipped with the information you need when you need it. And in my course Conscious Conception, I walk you through the numbers, the types of miscarriages, What to expect when miscarrying, how to support yourself through one, how to recover from one, what you need to know about trying again post loss, the reasons they happen and proactive steps you can take to prevent them, everything you need to know about recurrent pregnancy loss and how to prevent them, and more.

You're not alone and I'm here for you. You can email my team at innatefertility@gmail. com for more information. Now back to the episode. Yeah, I, I can definitely resonate with that. And, um, I think at this point too, a lot of women are just a lot, self advocating a lot more too and becoming informed. So, you know, there's that, there's that extra layer of, um, uh, you know, I, 50 percent of pregnancies are unplanned.

So there's that aspect. Yeah. You know, how many of those end up in losses, and these women have to go through exactly what we went through anyway. Um, and so there's, there's a lot more, I feel like there's a lot more need to discuss these kinds of things, and probably a lot more women that feel the same way as we have in the past than we realize.

[00:26:35] Arden:Well, and I think that's a, it's a great point to bring up that half of pregnancies are unplanned, and I, a lot of A lot of the women that I talk to, I find that whenever somebody has a miscarriage of an unplanned pregnancy, sometimes I think society thinks that means unwanted, but that's not true. You know, it's just that maybe they weren't preventing, but weren't trying and, and they got pregnant or, you know, it could happen so many different ways.

And, um, a lot of times there's an added grief with that because they thought their life was going one way. And then they had these plans for this baby, and then they lose that baby. And so it's like, it's kind of whiplash. And so I think that all of our individual stories also Really play a big role in our grief because I, I like to say that we have secondary losses of loss.

So it's like pregnancy loss is our main loss, but we have all these other things that we've lost. And while we might relate on some of those secondary losses, a lot of us are going to have secondary losses that are unique to us that we can only understand. And then we have to help other people understand it so they can support us.

And that is draining. So then that's another loss because that's like a loss of your energy with, you know, being social. And There's just so, so much to it and I don't think that doctors often take into account those things, you know, sometimes I've heard, I've heard terrible comments, uh, from doctors of like, if somebody did have, An unplanned pregnancy, it's almost like, well, you know, good thing this wasn't a planned pregnancy, or I've, I've heard the craziest things, um, or in the midst of my first miscarriage, I had a nurse ask me if this was a planned pregnancy, and I wanted to ask her, like, does that matter?

Does that change this outcome? Um, so I see that, like, interfere a lot in the miscarriage space, which always bugs the crap out of me because it does not matter. 

[00:28:28] Loren: I think that's well said. I think that's really well said. It's that aspect and then also the commentary that you get afterwards too from people that is just shocking sometimes.

But you know, I think, uh, maybe for, for anyone who has experienced, who has never experienced a loss, um, Maybe it would be helpful to kind of go through what to expect just to kind of, and I can share my two cents as well, but I'd love to kind of walk through what to expect. 

[00:28:59] Arden: So if somebody has never experienced a loss and say they're preparing or they're going to experience loss and they find this. Um, one thing I tell every person that even no matter how your miscarriage is going to happen, whether you are hoping to have a DNC, whether you are taking the medication or whether you're waiting for it to happen naturally by All the supplies needed to comfort yourself, have it in your home.

And like the worst case scenario is you have too much and you don't need it. And so some of those things that I recommend are adult diapers, extra long maxi pads, extra, it sounds kind of bizarre, but I, I tell people to get like extra t shirts or, um, to buy like To buy like men's briefs. And the reason is, is that way you don't bleed in your own clothes.

That way you don't traumatize yourself of your own clothes and outfits. Like you could throw out. these items. Um, it's just about being comfortable. Um, I didn't do that with my first and I could literally never wear the outfit that I had on to bed that night again. And that was another aspect of my personal trauma.

Um, I also think that I usually tell people a heating pad, but a good backup is to get the hot hands that like construction workers use because you can put them on your stomach if you're in the bathroom, um, and you don't want to plug in your heating pad and wait for it to warm up and all of that stuff.

Um, that could be a good immediate release. Um, along with, I tell people either Gatorade or liquid IV, something with electrolytes because it is, you're preparing for birth, uh, essentially. It's just a very. Sad, morbid birth that you did not expect to happen that should not be happening, but unfortunately is, um, I tell people to stock up on these things and to never be afraid to ask your doctor for a pain reliever, even if it's a controlled substance.

If you're comfortable taking a controlled substance, it's not a crazy request to have a, like a hardcore pain reliever because the pain is. Um, with preparing for loss, so that's, there's so many ways I feel like that loss happens too. I can share from, from my experience of it happening on its own. I started spotting and it took five days of light spotting until what I call the worst of it happened.

Scientifically, a lot of times the worst of it actually happens in the middle of the night because of the light. Like our hormone shifts, which I think is kind of crazy. But the same thing is with birth. A lot more women go into labor in the middle of the night. So you could, you could spot for multiple days before the worst of it happens.

And I say the worst of it because sometimes there's a misconception that bleeding is the actual miscarriage and that's not a hundred percent true. You know, miscarriage also looks different for everybody. Some people do have, you know, You know, periodic bleeding and don't experience the worst case scenario, which is usually what I prepare people for.

But in most cases you spot for a few days and then you will start to feel that your cramps and your contractions are just getting harder and heavier. It's again, quite literally like a birth where it's like, you notice that you're contracting and you feel like you're Then after you probably contract for a little while, again, it's different for everybody, the bleeding will become heavier and you will have blood clots that are pretty large in size.

Whenever I tell people what to expect with a miscarriage, anatomy wise, What happens is we give birth to two essentially very large sacs. Um, sometimes it can be one sac if it's both sacs put together. Um, a lot of times it's two. And what that is, is your amniotic sac and your gestational sac. And so that is peak pain.

That's, you're going to feel intense push, like the sensation of push again just like birth. And then I always tell people that, you know, the worst is over because after that release, you instantly feel like a weight has been lifted. It feels physically like things are, you know, that the worst is over. I cannot explain it further than like your, your mind just knows like, okay, that was the worst of it.

And you feel like a release. However, you will continue to bleed. And so I, I usually tell people not to be afraid to let go. Literally, labor wherever is comfortable. A lot of people, that's the bathroom. Uh, for me, I went between the shower and the toilet, and that was most comfortable for me. That way I could have hot water, and that way I didn't have to, like, continue to clean myself, and I could just sit on the floor of the shower, and that was, that was comfortable for me.

Um, Also, with my experience, I took Cytotec. It was a very similar timeline, except for it wasn't a complete miscarriage like my first one was. So, I actually had many days of passing clots, which is Sadly normal for the medication, but should not be deemed normal for us to experience. Um, so yeah, I don't know if you have any additional things from, from your experience or anything that I'm not thinking of.

[00:34:13] Loren: Yeah, I, I love to add some additional things from my experience, but also maybe what I do differently to in the future. Um, so blighted ovum and it was a miscarriage as well. So I, it was no older than six weeks. But we didn't find out until nine to ten weeks, uh, cause I was just at that point mentally just like, I don't know if I can take this.

I had been spotting, which is a very common, actually, symptom during pregnancy too. So you know, my, and I had been working with a midwife at that time and she just encouraged me to, uh, You know, hey, it's normal, but if it makes you feel better, absolutely, we can, we can get you an ultrasound and just know that that's an option for you.

And so I hung on as long as I could because I was actually going to avoid any kind of early interventions and I just couldn't take it. By like 9 or 10 weeks. I think it was the 9th week. And so I got one, and then we went to the ultrasound. The center, my poor husband was like, I knew immediately when she, um, was doing, the tech couldn't tell you anything, you know, the tech can't tell you anything, here in the United States.

Um, so if you're you know, in Canada or Europe, ultrasound techs are very tight lipped because they can't interpret it. what they're seeing for you. It has to be interpreted by a medical doctor. But, you know, as soon as I saw it on the screen, I was like, oh, this is not. This is not a viable pregnancy. Um, and my poor husband was like, What's going on?

What does this mean? I, you know, and so I just left completely sort of, I don't know how to describe it, but defeated. Um, and also just trying to prepare myself for what was to come. Um, but also, because I knew it was past my Three weeks passed when it should have been. I was also trying to contend with, okay, what's my plan?

Because I really don't, I personally did not want to get a DNC. Um, I didn't want to have to go through that. Uh, I think, you know, for some women it can be, The exact thing that they need, but for others it and for most women that I know, it's been a really traumatizing experience to have to go through that.

It's been its own kind of trauma. Granted, they can be life saving to sometimes, but I just wanted to try to avoid getting one is as much as possible. So I was like, okay, what, what do I know that I can do? Um, and so, yeah. My midwife, uh, you know, encouraged me to just keep tabs on things for about two weeks.

And if I didn't pass within two weeks, then we would probably want to go see a physician, OB GYN, to see what might be going on and consider that, or consider additional options. So, amazingly, right before the two week mark, is when I miscarried. And prior to that I had started spotting, but really it wasn't spotting, it was actually releasing tissue.

Like I think it was placental tissue. So I had started releasing tissue and then just one morning I was literally watering my bushes in the front yard. I just I started bleeding profusely and I was like, okay, this is happening. I ran inside. I could not like the pad that I had on just mentally preparing for it could not soak it up fast enough.

I was just like, oh my gosh. So I started bleeding a lot. And that's something that I think people should know. You know, I think it can go from like zero to a hundred very quickly. And so, and then the, the labor pains started to happen as well. Um, and I labored for about three hours and I went from basically the floor on my knees in my bedroom to the toilet between the floor and the toilet.

[00:38:37] Arden: And, um, I passed out. An enormous amount of tissue. I was in shock because, again, they say it's going to be like a heavy period, but it is, it can be. I've had heavy periods and, and I think it does, it depends on so many factors too. Um, But yeah, that's crazy. 

[00:38:47] Loren: Yeah, just an enormous amount of tissue because I think by then I was 11 weeks and my body had continued to grow that placenta and grow my uterine lining even though it was a blighted ovum.

So I had a lot of tissue to pass and it was just really surprising and just as I was starting to feel light headed, And being like, okay, this is not a good sign, maybe I should go to the ER. It stopped. It slowed down to a very light period. And I was like, okay, this is, this is it, I think. The worst has passed, like you said.

Um, and so from there, I experienced a different kind of pain after that. It wasn't labor pains or contractions, but this really strong burning sensation. Uh, like, kind of like the, the uh, I would say that was more similar to Uh, for about five hours afterwards. And so I just, at that point, I was exhausted. I took a nap on my bed, or I tried to, through this pain.

And I had a warm water bottle, a bladder, with hot water. I just compressed, um, on my belly, drinking lots of liquids, um, I did take aspirin, which definitely I would talk to your doctor. It does thin the blood, so if you do end up bleeding a lot, it, it's not something that you maybe want to take for pain. Um, but I have been done bleeding, so I, I felt comfortable taking it.

And, Yeah, I just focused on a lot of nourishment after that or tried to eat. I really didn't have any appetite. Um, I think things I would do differently maybe are prepare more for the loss. I had pads, uh, but I didn't have that outfit. Even that outfit tip that you gave was just amazing because, you know, even, even going into the bathroom sometimes I'm just like, Oh, this is where it happened.

Um, and it's hard because you, you don't have so many choices. a lot of the time, but yeah, I think things I would do differently, probably prepare a little bit more as far as like the mental aspect of things, make sure to block out my calendar, honestly, uh, for, for a couple of days, if I can, so that I can have that emotional and physical time to recoup.

And that's something that I didn't really prepare for, uh, you know, as a, as a business owner, it's kind of difficult to, to take that time off, especially when you don't know what's coming, but it's, it's definitely something that I would have. done more strategically. Um, the outfit's a great tip that you gave.

I love that. Having the pads, um, having the heating, the hand warmers is also great. I kind of wish I had those, um, on the toilet.

[00:41:52] Arden: I learned from not having any of these to be clear. My first experience made me like, uh, stock up on stuff where I was like, I, Now I need X, Y, and Z, and for my second miscarriage, I made like a basket of these items for myself, um, and then I also, from there on, started like leaving things like that at home in case I had another miscarriage.

So it made me want to be a little different. And it's interesting because the men's briefs as a tip came from, I didn't have, I can't remember if we just like needed to do laundry or something. And I was like, I just, I need to wear shorts or something. And it was September. So it was hot. And so my husband was like, well, I have these briefs that I didn't like, do you just want to wear them?

And I was like, yeah, that sounds good. And they were, they were so comforting because they were like tighter shorts. You know, on me and, um, from there on, like, I would wear briefs when I was on my period and stuff. And so it kind of became this thing, this, like, piece of comfort for me. And so now I recommend to everybody, like, we should all be wearing men's briefs because they're very comfortable.

[00:43:05] Loren: Yeah. I love it. I love it. That's definitely a great tip. I think also, you know, depending on, you know, your spirituality or depending on kind of what you envision for yourself, how you want to, how you want to remember, um, this pregnancy, it can be helpful to figure out a way potentially to catch what you're losing.

And, you know, you could do that with a sieve. You could do that. They make kits for that. Um, but I think. If you do have the luxury, and I say luxury, you know, obviously very cynically, to think about this ahead of time, because sometimes losses just come and you don't expect them, but if you know that they're coming, it can be helpful to have this kind of kit, uh, so that you can, you know, honor, honor your baby in whatever way that you feel you want to.

[00:44:03] Arden: I completely agree. Sometimes I tell people, like, some ideas in case that's helpful for the listeners to hear. Like, if you feel, if you feel comfortable naming them, it could be a name that would be their name regardless, or it could be a nickname, um, any of those things. Uh, sometimes that that's a really nice way for us to cope, but also that way we can acknowledge our baby.

Making purchases like, uh, Birth flower art is a really big thing on Etsy. And I, that's one of my favorite pieces that I have with my losses and other ones. Like I, if you have an ultrasound photo as painful as it is, um, sometimes you could do watercolor paintings or, or something like that. Um, Etsy has a lot of really great shops that are run by people who have experienced loss and now create art.

Um, and it's a really great place to find items for that as well. 

[00:44:59] Loren: That's a beautiful suggestion. I love that. I actually have a friend who specializes in this, who provides more of like, bereavement kits. Yeah, that's great. Yeah, but um, I think, you know, if you can think about that ahead of time, or even whenever you're ready afterwards, you know, these things can, can sometimes help you in processing everything.

I agree. Well, thank you so much Arden. I know you have to run. I would love to continue our conversation. I 

[00:45:33] Arden: could talk all day sadly about miscarriage and there's so many pieces of it. So I'm always happy to come back on and chat more. Um, I feel like this Was a good conversation for either anybody who's processing their loss experience and wants to know that they're not alone, or somebody who's going through loss and wants to be prepared.

So I hope it's helpful. 

[00:45:56] Loren: Yeah, definitely. And how can people find you and reach you? 

[00:46:00] Arden: Um, I am on Instagram at the miscarriage doula. Um, and my website is the miscarriage doula dot C. O. So it's not dot com. It's dot C. O. And I have a podcast where people share their miscarriage stories. Uh, it's called miscarriage stories and that's available everywhere.

I don't know all the platforms anymore. I just know that wherever I upload it, that's all it goes. I think that's all the places. I think that's how you can find me. 

[00:46:26] Loren: Well, thank you so much, Arden. Definitely, you know, if you feel like you're wanting additional support, um, or just to even educate yourself on loss.

Go check out her resources and again, thank you so much for being here today and for sharing everything that you did. And I hope that as you said, it really helped somebody potentially in need listening, or if you know somebody and you're listening that, that maybe this would help feel free to send this episode along to them.

[00:46:52] Arden: Yeah, I agree. Thank you again for having me.

[00:46:55] Loren: Thanks, Arden.

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