Innate Wisdom Podcast

What It's About:

Join Loren Sofia, Functional Fertility Coach and owner of Innate Fertility, and Josh & Jeanne Rubin, best known as realfoodgangstas on Instagram, owners of East West Healing, as they discuss thyroid health.

In this episode, you’ll learn about:

-Creating real change versus chasing your tail
-Social media’s effect on healing & the nervous system
-Thyroid health beyond aesthetics & fat loss
-The hypothyroid epidemic in America
-What causes hypothyroidism, hyperthyroidism, Hashimoto’s, Graves disease
-Underrated things impacting the thyroid
-The truth about thyroid medication
-Chasing the effect of something versus shaping your life to achieve it
-Josh’s experience with pituitary adenomas
-Ways you can support your thyroid naturally

Transcript:

[00:00:00] Loren: Welcome to the Innate Wisdom Podcast. I'm your host, Loren Sofia, healer of my own fertility and health struggles, mother, functional fertility coach to thousands of women, and owner of Innate Fertility. I believe your body is innately wise, and so is your fertility. Sometimes we just need the tools to unlock it in abundance.

I'm honored to guide you through each episode where we'll cover not just fertility, but how to rediscover the innate wisdom of your body. Restore your connection with your physiology, bioenergetics and metabolism, and get back in touch with Mother Nature and ancestral traditions.

Welcome to another new episode of Season 3 of the Innate Wisdom Podcast, and if you don't know them already, I'm excited to introduce you to today's guest, Dr. Kim. Welcome. Josh and Jeannie Rubin, best known as Real Food Gangstas on Instagram and owners of East West Healing. 

 [00:01:00] I'm really excited about this episode because we're talking all about thyroid health.

And if you've listened to the last season's episode on my fertility and pregnancy journey, you know that I've struggled with hypothyroidism myself in the past. Not only did I not feel like myself while I had hypothyroidism, I felt dull and I felt flat. And if you've been following me for a while, you also know how important thyroid health is to maintaining abundant fertility, how important it is to getting pregnant and staying pregnant, and how important it is for having a healthy pregnancy and baby.

The issue is that most people, like they have been conditioned by the modern medical system, compartmentalize their thyroid health. They think their thyroid issue is just that, a thyroid issue. So they chase their thyroid symptoms round and around. But as you'll hear Josh, Jeannie, and myself talk about, it's much more than that.

[00:02:00] And for me personally, I didn't heal my thyroid issues by going down those rabbit holes. In this episode, we're going to talk about the real causes of thyroid dysfunction, including the truth about thyroid medication, which might surprise you, as well as what true thyroid health means and how you can support yours too.

Now let's get into the episode. I hope you enjoy the show. Okay. Well, welcome to another episode of the innate wisdom podcast today. I'm super excited to welcome both Josh and Jeannie Rubin. Welcome to the podcast. 

[00:02:31] Jeanne: Thank you, Thanks for having us.

[00:02:33] Loren: It's so great to have you. You guys are bosses, gangstas, the OGs, and it's an honor to have you.

[00:02:42] Jeanne: We've been around for a little while, haven't we? 

[00:02:45] Loren: Yeah, so for those who aren't familiar with who you are, I would love it if you could just share a little bit about your story, how you got started, and how you evolved to real food gangsters. 

[00:02:56] Josh: Yeah, I mean, there's two of us, so it always is, is a little bit different and complicated, because, you know, we got to fit two people on the screen, we got to, like, tell two stories, so we try to simplify it.

You know, we both have completely different upbringings and we both kind of, we always say like the work found us, we didn't find the work because I didn't go to school specifically for that. You know, I went to school for occupational therapy and first exercise science, well, first pre med then exercise science, cause I couldn't do the chemistry.

And then occupational therapy and then TCM and then osteoporosis. So it's like, and I don't do any of that. Like it's the, it's the work and the evolution that really found us. And I'm not going to speak for her, but I'm assuming she'll probably say the same thing. And, you know, I grew up, my mother was a nurse and a dietitian.

My dad was an x ray tech. I grew up in hospitals, Mass General Hospital, roaming the hallways. So I knew I wanted to be in the field helping people. But I think when it comes down to, you know, Like who we are and what we do, it's really to help people create change, you know, and, and have health become a part of their life and not their life, and really understand and help people understand that your body is hold so much wisdom and so much health.

That's what it's designed to do. We just have to create the environment for it to do so. And that's completely up to you. And you have that choice. But you have to really to heal. get vulnerable and have the courage to do so, which isn't easy. We get that. Um, and you have to really begin to trust your body again and reconnect with your body.

This precedes the modalities, the supplements, the protocols, the food. If you don't have that, you're going to chase your tail. So of course we do a lot and we do specific things, but I think our message has evolved. Over 23 years of doing clinical work into this place of like, take your power back and, and stop chasing your channel.

Let's create change. Cause when you do that, everything you do externally is going to influence you internally. So if we create that change, we can have a huge influence on our system. 

[00:05:00] Jeanne: I think that's kind of what brought the work together is that Josh and I always thought out more of the function versus treating the dysfunction, which I think a lot of.

Even allopathic medicine is really about that, right? It's about treating the dysfunction versus the person and the interrelationships between the different systems. And that was something that we continuously sought out is how does this all come together? Right. And as we were working clinically, it we just kept coming up against the same stuff, the same labs, the same supplements, nobody was talking nutrition, nobody was talking lifestyle.

And we kind of just said, Hey, you know what? We don't need to do this anymore, right? We don't need the labs to tell us that there's something bigger happening here. But how do we start getting side by side with people and looking at their lives? And people began inviting us into their stories. And we began to really see these underlying stories of lives and how their lives and their experiences have really shaped, again, what's happening physiologically.

[00:06:00] And I think that was a lot of my own experience. This has been a very personal journey for me. And I couldn't get to where I am right now in my own healing without looking more deeply into how I have been affected in my life through certain things, because I know that that is essentially what's driving.

my own personal health, right? So as we've brought this work together, and as we got into the conversation around cellular energy, it was like, oh, well, that's what we're made of. You know, that's what literally breathes us. So if we can shift our attention there, Then now we get to really seek more deeply into the inner connections, inner relationships, how that, that root, I guess you can call it, right?

Expands out to all the different systems and how that again is. reflected in our state of health. So we can do that. We can begin to step away from symptom chasing and really align with what fuels that aspect.

[00:07:00] And then the rest of our physical and emotional body, because I think that's another thing is for so long in our culture, we've been so focused on physical, physical, physical, and have never really married the physical and the emotional body.

[00:07:16] Josh: Well, around that, I wanted to say, like, we always ask clients what your definition of health is. And the problem is no one knows what their definition of health is, right? Cause everyone thinks health is food, right? That's what I call the gateway drug to health, right? It's everyone wants to strangle nutrition.

And I think that's important to understand what your definition is, right? Because it helps you really sink into your story, set realistic goals and expectations like, Oh my God, I got talked to a client today that has an eczema since she was six years old. She's 24. How long do you think it's going to take for you to actually regulate this?

It's not going to take. It might not even take a year, it's gonna take longer, you know? And I always tell people my story, how it took me like three and a half years. 

[00:08:00]To kind of fight something. So we're really trying to get people to sink into that definition, because I think it helps people say, I just need to do things for me.

I need to focus on me. I need to focus on my story when I need. Cause as you hear us say all the time, we feel everyone's doing all the things, but they're doing all the things they don't need. And when you sink in your story and your definition, you do the things you need. And what happens? You simplify health, you get rid of so many different things and it makes things so much more fun and easy and simplistic.

[00:08:34] Loren: Mm hmm. Yeah, that really resonates with me and I think it's so powerful. What you're saying is, I think what I've captured from it is a lot of people think they're doing a lot to support themselves, but in a way they're not. pretty much continuously deferring their results. Deferring, deferring, deferring, because they're not actually taking the time to put in the work.

They're kind of looking for the quick fixes, looking for the next diet, the supplement. 

[00:09:00] And that's just, maybe they see a little bit of improvement, but it's really not helping them get to the root. And really taking a step back and connecting the physical, like you were saying, Jeannie, with the sort of emotional, mental aspects, is where a lot of the healing can happen.

And some people just aren't willing to go there, or maybe they haven't thought of it, uh, or maybe it's scary. I think it's terrifying. It's 

[00:09:25] Jeanne: terrifying. It's terrifying and it's not easy, but I think that that's one thing we saw really come together best. six years into our work is like we're tapping into something so much bigger than just thyroid health, right?

We're talking, we're tapping into nervous system regulation here because we started to see the building, like we're quieting the chaos. We're building the resiliency. And as we build the resiliency, we're creating more balance so we can move in and out of stress the way we're intended to. So as we started to experience that both personally and then seeing it professionally, it Mully, this is really powerful, right?

But I don't think, I think our culture has set us up for failure, right? I think the whole culture has, I think that's, that's what people have been seduced into believing is that it's only nutrition, right? And we can, we can just push hard and we can do more. And, It's not accurate. It's wrong. 

[00:10:21] Josh: Well, it's, it's, of course, like, when we grew up, there was no social media.

We didn't even have computers at one point, right? So let's be real, that's like, our age here. But, I feel like social media is making it ten times worse, right? I remember when Instagram started, a client said, Hey, check out Instagram. It's this thing, you just post a picture, it's really cool, you see all these great pictures.

Literally. That's what it was. And I remember my client, he was getting into his car, stepping out of a gym. I remember the moment it was created, you know, and that's what social media was way back when, you know, but now it's like the only way you can do well on social media is an entrepreneur. is to post more, do more, say more.

[00:11:00] I mean, it's just out of control. The problem is, it's stuffing information and misinformation in people's faces. And this is just perpetuating disease. Right? Because everyone thinks, I mean, if I got what next? If I got half a penny for the comment of what do I do next on Instagram, I'd be a trillionaire, right?

People have looked at Instagram now as a consultation, right? You can look at a post, you can fix an email post. The problem is it's a conversation, right? And we're trying to change that, but social media is perpetuating the confusion. We're not saying people are doing this on purpose, like they just want to chase and not get better.

It's just that our culture perpetuates it. Everything is over the top, fast as possible. We got to work more and health is not, it's just not a priority in this day and age. It's marketed as a priority, but it's really not because when we talk to people, like when we, when I was working in a hospital, we took a 15 minute break in the morning.

We took a lunch break. We took a 15 minute break in the afternoon. Nowadays we talk to people that are like, I eat through my lunch working and I can't take breaks because we just have so much to get done. This is a problem. You know, people wake up. They don't even see the sun, they work all day, come home, watch TV.

You can eat the most healthiest food in the world. It's not going to do anything for you because you're living out of alignment with how your, your physiology, what we're really what it needs to anchor into health. 

[00:12:35] Loren: Yeah, I could not agree with you more, especially with the social media aspect.

[00:12:39] Josh: I know you love social media

[00:12:39] Loren: It is just training everyone to have this unrealistic expectation that you can solve all your problems with one singular post and it also is training you for that dopamine hit of like, Oh, this is, you know, this is the supplement that's going to fix everything.

Let me just buy it. Click here, click there. It's really short form content that takes none of you into account. So, and I totally agree with what you're saying too, is in regards to overextending yourself, you can, you can eat the healthiest diet. And I see that a lot with my fertility clients as well.

They'll come to me literally taking 20 supplements, 20. And they're like, I'm doing everything. I'm eating all the food. I'm taking all the supplements, but I haven't been able to get pregnant for, you know, three years. I don't know why. And, you know, when we actually start to peel back the layers, there's a lot underneath that really hasn't been addressed, including traumas, including, you know, nervous system dysfunction.

But when you can actually start to heal those, it doesn't just extend into your health. It extends to so many other aspects of your life, which I think is so beautiful. You know, you're not just living, you're not just improving your health, you're, you're improving your quality of life. And it's amazing.

It's amazing. It's amazing. You know, vast night and day difference that somebody can, you know, start to experience in terms of just living better and more happily. And you're, 

[00:14:05] Jeanne: you're giving that to the world also, because I think as we step into our own healing process, we develop compassion for others, right?

At such a deeper level, we can begin to see, as we've moved through it, why somebody might be. suffering in the way that they're suffering or struggling in the way that they're struggling or whatever it is that they're going through, right? And it's, it's, it's just a, it's a powerful evolution in the healing process to, to, to marry all those things together.

Yeah. And I think a huge missing link. I don't think it's been talked about enough, you know? 

[00:14:39] Loren: Totally. Yeah. You show up as a better version of yourself for your family, for your kids, for your future kids or desired kids, you know, in your work, uh, is a more, I don't know, productive, happier member of society that can contribute.

Yeah. Uh, really amazing things and think clearly and not be so burdened by. you know, this one health issue. So it's really, I love the work that you're doing and the message that you're spreading. It's really powerful. So I have a somewhat silly question. Uh, yeah. How did you both decide on real food gangstas?

[00:15:16] Jeanne: We didn’t both decide

[00:15:18] Josh: Let me just get this clear here. So our business is East West Healing. Right? We kind of say it because I'm from the East Coast, she's from the West Coast, or because it's like East West philosophy in a sense. Yeah, so we'll leave it at that. So we were doing social media. This is a long time ago, right?

Like, I mean, we were on Facebook and then Instagram came out. We were East West hailing on Instagram. So this is probably seriously like 15 17 years ago, easily, and I saw people's pages growing. And I saw people doing different things and I'm like, everyone's got a cool name on their Instagram and we have East West Healing, maybe they're getting more followers because they have a cool name.

So we changed it to Real Food Gangsters, like literally came up with it on the spot and we haven't changed it of course, because of Instagram 

[00:16:09] Jeanne: and they're silly. 

[00:16:11] Josh: And that's how it literally came about. 

[00:16:14] Jeanne: By total accident. Josh thinks he's a gangsta. Well, I love it. And 

[00:16:20] Loren: well, it adds an element of fun. And I think that's important, you know, especially when you're, you know, dealing with what can be heavy topics.

Well, thanks for sharing that. So we, we've talked a little bit about this, you know, your introduction, your primary focus is thyroid health, but it obviously After, you know, listening to your story, it extends so much further, of course. I hope people are getting that. But I would still love to talk about the thyroid itself.

And I think when most people think about the thyroid, they think about aesthetics, they think about how much fat they're holding on to, their weight,  weight loss, fat loss, etc. And, um, I'm just wondering if you can expand on what the thyroid is and what it actually does, you know, in regards to these sort of things that people think about, but the other very important things that the thyroid is responsible for.

[00:17:17] Josh: Yeah, I think we came into the, the philosophy of like, we want like, Honestly, 20 years ago, we want to focus on the self. Like that's our work. How do we get it to produce energy? The problem is we couldn't like market that, like people would be like, what are you talking about? I mean, 20 years ago, we talked about metabolic and metabolism and we had to explain it over, no one knew what it is and of course, you know, it's evolved and everyone, it's like, I didn't want to hear it anymore.

But. At the time, it was like thyroid hormone was the only hormone that influences the cells. So that's the direction we went at the time. It's changing because we're kind of slowly rebranding because our work is so much more than that. 

[00:18:00] But I think people look to thyroid gas as a fat loss hormone because people are like, well, you take T3 and I'm not losing weight.

It's not a weight loss hormone. Now, I will preface it with, yes, there are, there are bodybuilders use it to lose weight. You got to understand, they're also, their diet is on point to, to create the, the, their workout and diet are on point to support that, to burn fat, right? It's like, you can't just take T3 and think you're going to lose weight.

It doesn't work like that. So the thyroid itself, of course, produces hormone. That's what it does. It's the hormone that it produces that's converted. to its active form is really where the magic happens, of course, because it plays a role, of course, in cell energy production. It's not the only thing, but it's one of the only hormones.

And when you talk about the cells, for us, it's the most important thing, because like Kini said, you come into this world as a cell, and you multiply, Right? And become an embryo and a fetus. 

[00:19:00] And then you become a conglomeration of cells, right? If you looked at, you know, the spleen or the liver under a microscope, you would see a conglomeration of different types of cells.

Right? Just like the thyroid is. And they really dictate what's going on in that. organ or tissue itself, right? They're like the, the powerhouses, the engines, and it's a really important piece of our physiology, of our nervous system, of our biology, because in a simple sense, the way we look at it is, are you producing energy to produce antioxidants to put money in the bank, right?

So you can save money, spend money and, and, and, and live life. So we can, you know, regulate inflammation or go into a stress state when we need to and come back down. We have. the body budget to do that, right? And the more energy you produce in a sense, the more mitochondria produced, so the more money you put in your bank account.

The other way around is if we're not supporting ourselves, then you go towards that place of like oxidative stress and then inflammation and you [00:20:00] produce a lot of different markers and that's kind of like accruing debt. That's what we always tell clients. It's, it's accruing debt. And most people are coming to us with, you know, years and years of debt, 500, 000 to a million dollars in debt, because their cells are not producing energy.

And that's why they have autoimmune disease. That's why they have, you know, histamine issues, SIBO, whatever it may be. The other important thing that T3 does of course, is it plays a role in the liver producing bioavailable copper. Okay. which is an important piece when we talk about cell energy production.

We talk about histamine, you know, clarine histamine. When we talk about iron regulation, we talk about producing all your antioxidants in your body, you know, through the cell. So that's an important piece of what T3 does. But I also think that when it comes to the thyroid, like even anything in the body, we can't just look at the thyroid and say, this is what it does, because nothing in the body works in isolation.

[00:21:00] Of course, the thyroid has an intimate relation with the pituitary and the hypothalamus, but it has a huge relationship with the liver, it has a huge relationship with the adrenal glands, so it's, um, and of course, other things, but it's this, this relationship that is really, really important. And when we talk about from just a simple sense right now, because you know, of course people listening, it's like, I truly believe that under the surface is the adrenals relationship with the thyroid that pushes people towards having quote unquote hypothyroid like symptoms.

Right. And it's the spectrum of like, I don't know on how to explain it right now, but it's like if you were to count to a hundred you had this curve that like sloped upward like the adrenals gonna affect the thyroid and depending how chronic that's been It could keep sloping up and get you that place of having hypothyroidism, which is a hundred and I think a lot of people have functional hypothyroidism Because there's so much stress in adrenals regulate the availability of fuel, the thyroid regulates the burning of the fuel, the adrenals play a role in copper.

And so does the thyroid. So if one is affected, the other is affected. It just depends how far into debt you are. That's going to dictate where you fall in that spectrum. So I truly believe when people are showing issues with TSH or T3, a lot of the times. It's just that chronic stress, issues with the pituitary, you know, conversion, etc, that are affecting the adrenals that are indirectly or directly affecting the thyroid, and you're seeing those results, right?

[00:22:32] Jeanne: It's an HPA dysfunction at its height, right? It's just a matter, like Josh was saying, it comes back to how deep into it are you? How long have you been in that stress to how it's going to again express physiologically, but that's essentially what it is because that is the system that is in response to stress.

So when we talk about why is there such a huge hypothyroid epidemic, well, because there's a huge stress epidemic, right? Because our culture is so inundated with so much when it comes to stress, whether it's environmental, internal, emotional, you name it, we, we're bombarded on a daily, right? And again, we're moving so rapidly that the body, we just can't seem to catch up.

And I think that that's why we're where we are where we are at and I don't, you know, when we work with people, we have so many people coming to us on thyroid medication. Who don't technically need thyroid medication because we are working more with the stress But that's essentially what's happening is that hpa access is completely dysfunctional and that negative feedback loop is no longer communicating itself and that's why one of our primary goals when working with somebody is to Bring that back online and quiet that chaos and restore that brain body communication because otherwise We're just going to be beating a dead horse, which is what is happening to a lot of people who are trying to work towards a better place of health, but their systems, because it's a neurologically driven system, are so hardwired into that dysfunction.

So we need to really nurture that. and gently encourage the body back into that space and by providing, again, the resources to making changes within the lifestyle to help support those conversions. 

[00:24:22] Josh: Well, I truly think we have an epidemic of thyroid issues because of thyroid medication. I really do. And I'm not telling people to go off it or go on or any of that, right?

Because like I said, the fault is within the labs, number one, because of course high TSH is hypothyroidism and low TSH is hyperthyroidism. Luckily nowadays doctors are beginning to slightly run more labs. Um, but stress can cause high TSH just like pregnancy can cause high TSH and chronic stress can cause low TSH, right?

So you can't just test that. And the problem is, People who put on medication, well, now you affect the receptors, negative feedback loop, 

 [00:25:00] the longer you're on it, you can become dependent on it because you can shut those feedback loops down. Like typically, I forget the exact number of days, but like, you know, if you're on a thyroid medication for like 30, 60 days, you know, or even maybe, you know, three months, there's a chance, easy chance if you support the body, you can bounce back, right?

That's what bodybuilders do. But the longer you're on it, the less of a chance you have, especially when you're taking it. You don't need it and your system's dysfunctional, right? And this is why I truly believe you, we have this epidemic. It's because we're just, uh, we're not a problem solving society.

We're just like, Oh, you have a thyroid issue. You take this medication instead of who are you? What's your story? How did you get here? How are you living? How are you sleeping? What are you eating? What are you doing? You know, it's like I read this book a long time ago and I was trying to find the post, but it's like you go into your midwife or doula or any of these people, gynecologists, they shouldn't, like, I forget what question it was, but they should be asking you, like, how are you living?

[00:26:00] How are you eating? How are you sleeping? What are your habits? Like, that's the most important thing because that's what's going to dictate our physiology internally. And that's what we see. That's the effect we see on labs. The problem is you can't chase the effect. And that's what we're doing in our culture.

And this is why we have an epidemic. So we're not saying to people, go off your medication. We're just saying, okay, we see it. We see you. That's great. Let's focus on what we can do. With your lifestyle, with your habits, with your food, whatever we need to focus on for you to start creating physiological change.

So we can support the thyroid to do what it's designed to do, which is a tons of different things. Of course, it plays a role in fertility and the list goes on basically. So it can do what it's designed to do. And if, if you're able to handle less of your medication over time, that's a win. If you're still need your medication, but you feel amazing and life is great.

That's a win. You know, but that's, that's our goal with people when it comes to that. So I think the thyroid is not like a weight loss gland or hormone. 

[00:27:00] It plays its role really in like so many different things in the body. I just believe that it has a relationship and we need to focus a little more on that relationship versus just the hormone itself.

[00:27:13] Loren: Hey, it's Loren. Are you trying to get pregnant, but also struggling with thyroid issues like hypothyroidism or Hashimoto's? What about hyperthyroidism or Graves? What about thyroid nodules? If this is you, I've got you. I've helped countless women finally tame their thyroid issues so that they can get pregnant and stay pregnant.

Many have been able to reduce medications or come off them completely too. And how you can do this is through Conscious Conception, my pregnancy prep e course, and private sessions. Student community that helps you get to the root cause of your thyroid issues. This is not generic pregnancy prep and fertility advice that you can find on Instagram

It helps you get down to business on what the gaps are in your fertility and helps you address them at the root, including clear steps and proven protocols. 

[00:28:00] This is why my student was able to tame her hypothyroidism, get off her thyroid. mes. and get pregnant on the first try. This is why only after two months of starting the course, I had another student say her TSH is finally normal and her thyroid antibodies are coming down very quickly.

This is also why my 41 year old student with Hashimoto's was able to get pregnant after seven years of trying to conceive, including failed fertility treatments and a diagnosis of unexplained infertility. These are just a few of many examples. I would love to support you on your journey to motherhood for the first time or again.

Learn more at innatefertility. org slash get pregnant. And if you're loving the show, don't forget to leave a review. Now back to the episode. Yeah. Yeah. I think you make a bunch of really important points. So one is it doesn't operate in isolation. And I think that's where a lot of people, you know, the conventional allopathic way of looking at things is like, very compartmentalized.

Oh, you have this issue. It couldn't possibly be related to this issue. And, you know, just myself, I had, um, I had subclinical hypothyroidism when I was on the birth control pill. And not only that, but I had also pre diabetes and candida and melasma in an autoimmune disease. But it couldn't possibly be related to the birth control pill.

And it couldn't possibly be related to all these other issues I'm experiencing. They couldn't. Actually me related. No way. Of course they were. Uh, but you know, I say that facetiously, but you know, I think that's really important. Uh, an important point to make so that anyone listening, you know, if you have been continuously chasing down hypothyroidism, um, or your thyroid issue and like pretty much identifying with it too, it's time to maybe take a step back and look at other things that could possibly be going on.

[00:30:00] I think also you make a great point about the testing, so while I know testing has its pros and cons, uh, just, if you are looking at lab tests and you have been, uh, told you have hypothyroidism based on just one TSH number, not looking at anything else, I think that's really important too, you know. Just TSH testing is not enough, in my opinion.

Uh, when trying to assess, like, the actual function, what's going on with the thyroid. And also, uh, you make a really interesting point that I think isn't highlighted enough in terms of thyroid medication. I think thyroid medication has been really amped up too, even in the pro metabolic space. Like, let's take, T3 for fun, you know, as a supplement, I think it's forgotten that it can downregulate, you know, the actual production of thyroid hormone.

And, um, which is the exact opposite of what you want when you're trying to support the thyroid. So I think That is also really important. 

[00:31:00] And then lastly, just that hypothyroidism and thyroid issues, they're probably just a symptom, not the cause of a lot of issues. And the actual issue is lack of cellular energy production, which could be hypothyroidism or many other diseases, would you say, right?

[00:31:19] Josh: Well, I was going to say, there's two things I wanted to bring up. It can be anything. I mean, it can be, it can be a prolactinoma, right? Whether in pregnancy or it can happen in men too, right? I had two of them, right? I had two tiny, um, adenomas in my, my pituitary, which was driving up my prolactin, which is driving everything down, right?

So if you have high prolactin, it can cause thyroid like symptoms, but you don't really have a thyroid issue. So there's so many different things that can create the illusion. And I think we just want people to step back. The problem is when you're tired or alone. You'll do anything and take anything and doctors are going to give you that.

The problem is if how you live, eat, breathe, think your story got you to this place and all you do is take a medication, how can one think it's going to work because you still haven't changed? And how you live is what needs to change, in a sense, to create a different effect. The other issue around medication is, and I think on one end it's great because doctors are saying, how do you feel?

Right? Well, you know, I've been on 75 micrograms for a month. I'm not feeling any better. The biggest thing is I'm still tired. Right? That's their indicator, right? I'm still tired. Okay, well, let's bump you to 150 micrograms. It's unethical, it's, it's, I don't agree with that in any way because what we've seen with people is It's almost like the way we explain it is.

It's like putting a nitrous button on a really old Kia with like 250, 000 miles with tons of rust. You hit that nitrous button and the engine can't take it and it's just gonna blow, right? It's just too high of a dose and people end up with sweating and high heart rate and low appetite and they have muscle loss, they can't sleep.

 [00:33:00] So it's this just increasing, increasing, increasing of medication without creating change. You know, I mean, we have people on 150, I mean, I've had people on more, I had someone on 150 micrograms of T3 once, you know, so I think we do have to step in and say, how do I feel? But I think we also have to go, I need to like, what am I changing and tuning into versus just the medication?

If you need the medication, that's great, but you gotta create change in your life to support the medication to do what it's designed to do. Because if you have stress and the HPA, If you have blocking factors that are blocking T4 to T3, take all the medication you want. It's not going to do anything unless you change, right?

[00:33:47] Loren: Yeah, I think that's the underlying message here. Well, I'd love to also cover a couple of other things. thyroid related things, which I know the audience is probably wondering about. So we've talked a lot about hypothyroidism, but would you say this concept of energy, cellular energy deficiency also apply?

And I kind of know the answer, but, you know, would you say the concept of cellular energy deficiency applies also to hyperthyroidism, you know, also the autoimmune aspects of hypothyroid, uh, thyroid disease like Hashimoto's and Graves and even thyroid nodules? 

[00:34:24] Josh: Any disease disorder comes down to the cell, right?

But moving beyond that, the way we explain it to clients, because we just like to simplify things. Like, when people just don't feel good, they don't, their body budget is in the negative, like, You got to keep it simple. So when you talk about like hyperthyroidism, like I think about it in the sense of like the spectrum of like zero to 10, maybe like five is Hashimoto's and like, you know, I'm sorry, hypothyroidism and, and, you know, eight is Hashimoto's and 10 is like Graves in a sense.

And Graves is like a speeding car. With your foot duct taped to the pedal and your passenger's like, dude, you got to slow down. You got to slow down and you got to change your way. I got the car. You got to, and they're not, they're just not listening. And they just keep going pedal to the metal. And people with graves typically live their life that way.

Not on purpose. Maybe a lot of the times. But it's just a speeding car that's out of control, pedaled to the metal, and never really slowing down. And that's why they have to take medication to slow the fire down, to slow the system down. I think when it comes to healing from graves. It's just working the other way backwards.

It just takes a lot longer with people to do so, whether they need a medication to slow down the thyroid or not. I truly believe in what we've seen working with people, it's even more important to help them kind of recreate a lifestyle that they want, that's going to support their body. And it's not just all about, like, we're not saying it's just all about living a stretchy life.

and not doing anything. That's not what we're saying. You just have to find that balance point of what works for your body in lifestyle and food and so forth to get the system to rewire itself because it's so hardwired in do, do, do, go, go, go, go, go, you know. From a simple, you know, explanation. 

[00:36:23] Jeanne: And sometimes it's not a do, do, do, go, go, go at even the, the system is so hyper aroused for so many years.

And in all the cases of graves that I've worked in underlying is severe trauma, real trauma from childhood that has never been resolved. And that's what I have found. So the system is in such a hyper arousal, just in its natural state. Right. So on top of that, there's life and all the different experiences, like that's one thing that I've really noticed.

So working with somebody with grades, as Josh was saying, it's a big job, it's a, it's a big process. And there's many, many layers to the story and the, and the process of healing that need to be attended to. But. Yeah, it just takes a lot of time, but that's something that I've seen is really, again, at the core of it, is a very long term, hyper aroused system that doesn't know at all how to slow down.

[00:37:24] Josh: I mean, I think the food is important, but the other pieces of the puzzle need way more nurturing than the food piece. 

[00:37:30] Jeanne: That seems to be the easy part in most cases 

[00:37:32] Josh: I think with Hashimoto's, it's the same concept, but the way I look at it is You know, when you're stressed and we say stress, we're talking about like when the demands being placed on you exceed what you can handle, it's like going on a shopping spree with a thousand dollars in your bank account and you charge 5, 000 worth.

Right. And that's how people are living every day. Right. Like I was talking to a client this morning and she's like, I don't know what happened on Thursday. 

[00:38:00] Wednesday I woke up, I didn't feel good. So I had breakfast and then I did Pilates and I'm like, You just probably didn't feel good, right? So we have to adapt to our days.

It's like you're a moving line, but if that line dips because you don't feel good, you didn't sleep good, you have your cycle, whatever it may be, you have to adapt and meet that need. Not go, what's wrong with me? How do I fix it? You have to adapt to it. The problem is everyone keeps moving in a straight line, working out, living their life, eating the same way.

moving the same way, not slowing down. And this is how we create stress, right? Cause now the demands that are being placed on you and see what you can handle because you're down here. And right. So what happens is the body's like, well, I got to help you because you're not helping me. And it kicks in different systems and these systems in a sense, give you energy that you don't have.

Proteolysis, glycols, glycogenolysis, polysis, et cetera. And they essentially push, you know, energy into your blood sugar.

[00:39:00] Of course, the body's going to respond to that. Hyperglycemia, hyperinsulinia, this is just a fast forward, of course, you know, um, this is why people end up with, you know, you know, uh, different levels of diabetes or PCOS.

Of course, this can affect your hormones. But the problem with this is As things are driving up, everything drives up in the system. Your immune system drives up in the system to meet the demand that's being placed in your system. This is stress. The problem is we're not designed to live there. And if it's chronic enough, over time, the body is going to produce enough cortisol to pull everything down.

And the problem is the immune system follows that. That is Hashimoto's. That is really any autoimmune issue, right? That is the fundamental issue. the path of how we get there. So it's really, in a sense, how do we, and you know, when you look at NHGMA, these are the same thing with Graves. These are the like fast fours, fast three, four, slow three, four.

These are the people that are like, You know, because when you look at their metabolic type, this is the spectrum of stress, right? How long they've been in stress, they've been in stress longer. You know, if you want to look at it from the sense of the general adaptation system of alarm resistance, exhaustion, these people are more towards the exhaustion phase.

Pick what part of the slope, it doesn't matter, they're in there. And of course they have mineral issues that follow that. But this is Hashimoto's. Again, it's not about the medication. It's how do we. Change things externally in our life to change things internally that influence, right? Because stress externally is oxidative stress internal.

So it's, it always comes back to the same thing. It's just where you start with a person and what you're gonna focus on to really personalize it. Right? It's how do we stop accruing debt? How do we meet the body's needs now so the body can, can get out of this place of being too sympathetic or sympathetic, parasympathetic, depending on if they're slow for or fast for.

And how do we replenish the system? In a sense, our method of how do we build resiliency to stress and how we live in a way to dampen that stress, right? So over time we can, you know, Um, create more homeostasis, 

[00:41:20] Loren: but yeah, it, it just sounds like, you know, I think it's definitely easier said than understood maybe, but, uh, homeostasis and balance is really what you're looking to reestablish and meeting that supply demand.

With the supply and making sure that your health bank account, which I love this analogy that you use is healthy. You know, we're not overdrawing every single day, uh, or even, you know, weekly, because I feel like sometimes we withhold and then go on a binge or, you know, a metaphorical binge. But it's reestablishing that healthy balance.

And I think that that is really important for achieving just sustainability too, in terms of, you know, things you can actually implement. 

[00:42:13] Josh: Well, I think this is why healing is so hard for people, right? Because everyone online is like, Oh, if you have Hashimoto's, you can't have dairy. Like whoever came up with that concept needs to go. It's the silliest. 

[00:42:26] Jeanne: It's just not true for everybody. 

[00:42:29] Josh: Well, it's not like dairy causes. You know, Hashimoto's. I mean, of course, dairy's so bastardized. Like what type of dairy are we talking about? From what farm? But, you know, or it's like, if you have autoimmune, you know, they're all the same. How it's presented in your body depends on your story, right?

Nike, Adidas, Asics, they're all sneakers. And they all produce running sneakers. It's just a different name, right? They all do the same thing. But autoimmune issue is an autoimmune issue. How it presents your body depends on your story and your history. But I think the problem is, it's so hard for people to swallow and listen to this information because of social media, of all the protocols, of all the e courses.

There's so many quick fixes to just take supplements and do labs. But the problem is, it's no different than allopathic medicine. It's just a prettier supplement, you know, with maybe less side effects. And we're really asking people to get vulnerable, which is scary, and a lot of people are so numb, that actually step up and say, I have to do the work.

I have to take responsibility and say, I can't work out at 6am fasted. You know, I need to change that or I can't fast until noon or I need to start changing my diet or eating more food or or getting outside more, you know, it's it's It's the change that overwhelms people. We're so comfortable in this culture and our nice, perfectly temperatured room with our UGG blankets that no one likes to get uncomfortable anymore.

We just have to do it slow enough that it allows you to be consistent and compliant. If you can do something that allows you to be consistent and compliant, you will create health. 

[00:44:17] Jeanne: But I think the key word is slow. Right? We all want this yesterday. But we have to go at a pace that aligns with where we are in our healing process.

Otherwise, it's just one more thing to do. And I think that's the scary part is when we we've been taught again, To look at the result versus the steps that we need to take. Like we look at the big picture and that big picture is very overwhelming when you're in a deficit, right? When your body's already super stressed, that big picture is like, hell no, I'm not going to make one change or everything's falling apart here, right?

So we have to again, take it one, you know, bite sized pieces that are. Tolerable for somebody and that just might be waking up and having something to eat when they wake up and that's just where we begin and getting into the consistency of being in that space right because now we have to make sure we have that food we have to know what it is that we enjoy we have to actually do it right and that's a lot of steps for somebody to take who is used to just getting up and going right out the gate right.

So that in and of itself holds so much power though, because then we can start to build the days instead of trying to think of all the things that we have to do to get to this place when we are diagnosed with Graves or we are diagnosed with Hashimoto's, where it has been, again, a long term chronic stress, all we see is this huge thing that's unachievable.

And that's not true because we've seen and we've walked side by side with people over and over and over again who have accomplished this goal in such an instant. I don't want to say it's so simple because there are a lot of challenging pieces to it, but if we begin to break it down in those bite sized manageable pieces, it really simplifies the process and we shift our attention towards who we are and what we need and continuously ask that question.

We're going to, we're going to be guiding ourselves into that space that we are going to be able to reach a greater level of healing. 

[00:46:18] Josh: It's like we start people in first grade. You know, we do the little things. It's, it's, people are so overwhelmed. We've got to keep it simple. Sometimes it's just going for a walk after breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

One of them, sometimes it's like, I want you to eat outside at lunch. Like, it's not always about food. You know, like I have a client now, I'm like, I don't want you to work out in the morning. I think it's causing your back pain, you know, and she stopped working out and pain went from two to three, you know, eight, eight or eight out of nine, it was two to three in one week.

You know, so we're making small shifts because once we create that consistency and compliancy in first grade, it becomes very empowering. So let's kick it up a notch and go to second grade. And you just keep layering that. 

[00:47:00] If someone says at the end of the consult, that's all you want me to do, I know I'm doing my job. Okay. 

[00:47:07] Loren: Yeah, I love that. Well, I think you make a really good point to it's it's, you know, a lot of small habits over time can make really powerful, uh, yield really powerful results. And I think it just speaks to What we were talking about earlier and the conditioning we have, it's a lot of people are all or nothing.

And so it's really taking a step back because a lot, a lot of people that you probably work with, I know the, the women that I work with are all or nothing. They're like, I'm going to do it. all and just like throw myself into this one, the, the real progress and the real successes, uh, in, in terms of what I see come from those women that do things little by little, by little, sustainably.

[00:47:54] Jeanne: That's the, that's the challenge. That's where the healing is going to happen is being able to intentionally, initially in a very intentional conscious way, slow yourself down, which is not easy to do. And then over time it just becomes a little bit more natural as that system quiets down. Right. I have a client right now who is a bit of an adrenaline junkie and she's, you know, just really have finding it very, very difficult.

She's like, I feel like I'm nothing when I do nothing. Like, well, Isn't that interesting? You know, so let's sit with that for a second and see how we can just give ourselves permission to be in that space, even though we, and identify how uncomfortable it is and maybe not completely do nothing, but slow down what we're doing.

[00:48:40] Josh: Well, that's our culture. We've become so addicted to stress. Now when people go on vacation, they get sick. They're finally, their body's coming down from that adrenaline state, right? Or they can't do anything. Like, we have a neighbor who just got a knee replacement. You know, and a week later, she's on a ladder trying to paint her house.

We're like, what are you doing? She's like, I just can't do anything, right? 

[00:49:01] Jeanne: She's like, but the inflammation is so bad. It's so swollen. I'm like, well, what do you think? 

[00:49:07] Josh: Most people don't understand the reason they're at where they're at is because of themselves. And that's hard to swallow, right? Like histamine, cholesterol, SIBO, doesn't matter, blood pressure, you are at where you're at.

Where you're at because of your actions, whether there was stuff that was out of your control. My point is everything from zero to where you are now created your soup, created your puzzle, right? It's cause and effect. So we have to understand that, like, it wasn't because you were vegan for a year that caused all your health problems.

It wasn't because you just moved to a cold environment, why you're not able to handle it. No, son, it's, it's everything that's led you up to this point. And I truly believe health is cause and effect. The more you sink yourself into the summer, a better winter you're going to have, right? Everything you do is cause and effect, right?

And we're helping people really focus on the cause so they can create a better effect. 

[00:50:05] Loren: I love that. That's really well said. And really worth reflecting on for anyone listening. 

[00:50:11] Josh: It's hard because, you know, people have to, I mean, I went through it. When I went through my thing, I'm just like, Oh my God, like, what did I do to myself?

Like, and you're just like, whatever. But you got to focus on what you can do right now. And at the time, all I could do was breath, work and stretch and read motivational books. So I wouldn't Just feel like I'm never going to get well again. And that's all I can handle and eat food, but I did it every day.

That was my first grade, you know? And I think that. Like I said, there's just so much pushing people away from that and pulling people away from that and disconnecting from their body with aura rings and HRV, like if you need a ring to tell yourself how you slept, it's information how disconnected you are.

Like you need to know, I slept good or bad. Like it's that simple. So I think there's so much pulling people away. We have to pull away from it and reconnect with ourselves. 

[00:51:03] Loren: Yeah, I think that's those are really wise words and easier said than done But I think one thing at a time and small changes one at a time Well, Josh and Jeannie, this has been really wonderful.

I am so grateful for you sharing your wisdom and You know, there's been so many nuggets in what you've shared, but I would love to ask you, because this is the innate wisdom podcast, if there is one thing that the audience could start doing today. And, you know, this is somewhat not in line with what we've been talking about, because it's another thing to do, but maybe it's an undoing that you recommend.

Uh, but what is one thing that they could do to start unlocking more of the innate wisdom of their body? 

[00:51:50] Jeanne: Start exploring what you need. Ask this question repeatedly, because it's a question that we ask often, and Not many people know how to answer. So I think as we begin to understand what we need, we can begin to respond to ourselves differently.

And I think that that's part of, again, creating safety and calming the system is being able to identify that. And there's a, there's a level of self parenting that comes with healing. Right. So now we're seeing that something's not right. We're acknowledging that something needs to change and we're responding appropriately through that, just that simple question. Okay. 

[00:52:28] Josh: It's awareness. Then we move from all the things to the things we need. I think for me, just to go the other way for people, would be to get outside. And I say this because it unlocks so much power in our system physiologically. I mean, we're human. We literally, our cells thrive in five different ways.

One is obviously food, two is water, three is movement, four is sound, and fifth is the sun, is light and nature. Right? 

[00:53:00] It drives our system. Everyone's heard of circadian rhythm, circadian health. So, those things really support that. It's like sinking into your rhythm. But the problem is people wake up, they look at their phone, they turn the lights, they go on their computer, they watch TV.

You are creating dysregulation from the get go. Doesn't matter if you eat gold food, You take the best nutraceuticals in the world and your practitioner charges 20, 000 a month. Doing that, you're literally chasing your physiology the rest of the day. So getting up, doesn't matter if there's snow, it's winter, it doesn't matter where you live, there's clouds, it does not matter.

You can get outside at sunrise, you can research UVA rise and UVB, but getting outside at sunrise is probably, in my opinion, one of the best things people can do for their physiology. Why? Because it balances the cortisol melatonin relationship, which is really how we live, how we fight inflammation. How we move through the day and how we sleep, right?

[00:54:00] And it's a powerful thing that if people just do consistently, even if it's for two minutes, it can have a huge impact on your physiology over time. Huge in my opinion. 

[00:54:10] Loren: I love that.

[00:54:11] Josh: So like, well, I live in Canada. It's not sunny till eight. The sun doesn't come out until eight o'clock. Sun didn't rise until 8, 10 today.

So it doesn't matter where you live. It doesn't matter if the clouds are out. I know if I step out on my back patio every morning, that's where the sun is. So, I go outside at sunrise, UVA rise, even if it's for a minute, because I don't have a lot of time. Of course, in the summer there's more, different times, depends on where you live, but people are brainwashed to believe because it's snowing out and there's clouds out, that you can't get the sun.

You can, it's just a little bit different, but you can. But here's the thing, this is why the summer is so important, right? Because it helps you stock up for the winter. That's the important piece that people don't realize but you can still get the sun in the winter. 

[00:54:59] Loren: Those are amazing amazing tips and Guess what?

They're both free So, I love that thank you so much Josh and Jeannie and one more question if you don't mind How can people find you? 

[00:55:16] Josh: Our website is eastwesthealing. com You can find all our social media on there, our Instagram and our Facebook and YouTube, but our Instagram is RealtyGangstas. The other ones are obviously EastWest Healing.

[00:55:29] Loren: Perfect. Well, thank you so much for sharing your time, your wisdom. This was a super enlightening conversation, super powerful, and everyone go check them out. And again, thank you so much for being here, Josh and Jeannie, really appreciate it. 

[00:55:44] Jeanne: Thanks for having us on. Thank you. It's been fun. 

[00:55:47] Loren: My pleasure.

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