Innate Wisdom Podcast

What It's About:

Join Loren Sofia, Functional Fertility Coach and owner of Innate Fertility, and Megan Ziegenfus, creator of the course, Body Talk Basics, as they demystify puberty and how mothers can navigate conversations with their daughters about this important stage of life.

In this episode, you’ll learn about:

-What girls are being taught about puberty in school
-Why discussions around puberty are so “taboo”
-The benefits of having conversations about puberty with your daughter
-How girls experiencing puberty can get more connected with their cycle (& the benefits)
-Some of the changes that girls should expect when going through puberty
-How can young girls support themselves during their transition through puberty
-Important things that can be uncovered as girls track their cycles
-Why girls are getting their cycles super early or delayed
-The shifting perspectives on taking birth control at a young age
-Tips for discussing puberty with your daughter

Transcript:

[00:00:00] Loren: Welcome to the Innate Wisdom Podcast. I'm your host, Lauren Sofia, Functional Fertility Coach and Owner of Innate Fertility, and I'm honored to guide you through each episode, where we'll cover not just fertility, but how to rediscover the innate wisdom of your body, restore your connection with your physiology, bioenergetics and metabolism, and get back in touch with Mother Nature and ancestral traditions.

Thank you for joining us for another episode of the Innate Wisdom Podcast. On today's show, I'm excited to invite the creator of the course Body Talk Basics, Megan Zeigenfest, to help me demystify puberty and how you as a mother can navigate conversations with your daughters about this very important stage of life.

Megan and I talk about what's really being taught in public schools, why conversations like this have been so taboo, and the flip side, the benefits of having conversations about puberty with your daughter, the [00:01:00] different changes girls can expect to experience during puberty, how they can support their bodies as these changes occur.

Precocious puberty, delayed puberty, and so much more. I hope you enjoy the show. Thank you so much for coming on the show, Megan. I'm so excited to have you. And, yeah, welcome to the Innate Wisdom podcast. I would love to start out with asking you what your story is and what led you to doing the work that you do today.

[00:01:28] Megan: Yeah, well, thank you for having me. So my background is as a middle school teacher. And I didn't teach health, I taught history and English, but when you're with middle schoolers, body, you're smelling the body odor, they're telling you about their cramps and why they're not doing their work because they're not feeling good because they've just been exercising and now their cramps are horrible, all that kind of thing, so you're kind of just in this world of puberty and body changes regardless of what subject you're teaching when you're in middle school.

But kind of before that point, I. I was on a journey of learning about my own body as a woman, which really started, I would say, in college. I had period cramps. They weren't, you know, anything over the top or excruciating or, you know, ending me up in an emergency room or anything like that. But still, they were annoying and I just thought they were kind of a normal part of a period.

And I remember coming across someone saying, you know, that periods weren't supposed to be painful. And I It's like, what do you mean? They're not supposed to be painful. And I think in the context of the post I had seen, or I can't remember the blog posted, come across or something. They're talking about raspberry leaf tea.

And it was like this little light bulb went off of, Oh, what you put in your body can affect your experience of your menstrual cycle, which to me now sounds like the most basic light bulb moment ever.

[00:03:00] Like, why did I not think of that before? But it just was like, Oh. Okay, well, yeah, I guess there are things that I can do so that kind of got me down the path of realizing Oh little tweaks here and there really did make big changes when my period came around and then a few years later My husband I were gonna get married and we started looking into contraceptive options And of course all the options that I saw Immediately, you know, the pill, the IUD, those kinds of things were just immediate kind of no's for me.

I'd had way too many friends who'd had horrible experiences on the pill. I mean, learning about the process of putting an IUD in or just like, no, thank you. And I just was like, really, there are no better options that don't involve me really harming my body. And then again, I'm probably on a blog post stumbled across someone talking about the fertility awareness method and this idea that, you know, your body.

[00:04:00] Has a cycle with different signs that you can learn how to identify and make meaning out of. And again, it was one of those things where it was like, what? Our female bodies aren't just this mysterious, weird, kind of broken, kind of cursed, you know? Yeah, we're not. Maybe as mysterious as we are taught to believe, you know, and so that kind of again, let me down this female health rabbit hole and led me to be like, we need to be talking about this earlier.

Like as a 22 year old woman, I shouldn't be just now learning about the four phases of my menstrual cycle and how amazing cervical fluid is and all that kind of stuff. You really need this stuff earlier. So then I, you know, go and get my master's in teaching. And so we learned some about human development and sexuality and stuff like that in my master's program.

But even in that, it was, you kind of got a sense for how health is talked about in schools, which is very kind of sterile scientific, you know, here are the stages and  really not, it was missing the other things that had kind of brought female health alive to me, which was kind of the basic understanding that our bodies are.

designed very intelligently that it's also about, you know, our mind body connection, the importance of nourishing ourselves and a very broad sense of what nourishment looks like as well, food, but also just how we treat our bodies, how we think about our bodies. And it was really missing all of that, that made female health feel exciting and empowering to me.

And so then I got into the middle school classroom and was teaching, you know, history and English and all that, and just watching the kind of. lack of knowledge about the body kind of play out in front of me and just to the extent that I could see it as a middle school teacher. And so then when COVID hit, actually just a little bit before that, I thought I would really love to teach mom and daughter workshops or something about the basics of the cycle.

And then COVID hit and. So many people started making online courses and students became more familiar with that kind of education, you know, being online and I thought, well, maybe actually I'll make an online course about puberty and moms and daughters can take it together. And then it kind of relieved me of the burden of figuring out.

Exactly what age, you know, like, oh, this is a course for 12 year old or something like that, because I was also seeing as a middle school teacher, you know, I had 12 year olds who were telling me they were sexually active with their boyfriends and then 12 year olds that are like pretending to be a cat crawling around on the floor in the middle of my lesson.

You know what I mean? So I'm just like, they're very different, you know, stages of development and what different girls are ready for and who. I was in the best place to witness that and know what their daughter needs, their moms. And that's also, that was a missing piece of what I was seeing in the classroom as well.

You know, like girls are learning this outside of the context of their moms. And it's kind of this missed opportunity for bonding between a mom and daughter. And so I thought, okay, well, perfect. If moms could kind of take this self paced online class with their daughter, they could listen to whatever they're ready for and have this bonding experience.

That would really be kind of the. Gift that I wanted to offer the world. So anyway, that's what I did and spent the next year. I ended up quitting my classroom teaching job and spending the next year just building out this curriculum and experience for moms and daughters to hopefully introduce them to concepts that were so life giving to me at a much earlier age.

So that's kind of my story.

[00:07:27] Loren: Well, I think that's beautiful, and I think it's such a beautiful way to introduce this information and to have the maternal figure be the shepherd of it, because maybe the mother, you don't have as great of a relationship with your mother, or you Have found this young woman in your life and you still want to give her this education.

And I think that that is beautiful to have that maternal figure being able to deliver and sort of talk through this information, even if it's not mom. And I think that perspective is really important too. I think. Parental purveyorship is really important in terms of the information that kids receive and also absorb.

But I also think it's beautiful how this came out of your own experience because I had a very similar experience as well or it was different in terms of like I didn't really understand that there was other options outside of birth control. And that the female cycle was not as mysterious as you said, as it was supposedly made up to be.

And I was actually quite angry when I figured out that there were other ways other than IUDs and birth control pills, things that actually really hurt my body. I did end up taking these things and I did end up paying for them for a long time. And I felt super betrayed and I felt like I wish I could have turned back the clock to teach my younger self or learn about it, and I didn't understand why.

Even I don't think my mother knew either, you know, right?

[00:09:05] Megan: Yeah, that's the thing. 

[00:09:07] Loren: So I think it's really beautiful because also in that sense too, it's almost like an education for the mother as well. And so I think that that's amazing. And you're really. Opening up new avenues that I think, in general, more young women are more aware of this kind of thing and that there are other options and they're more decisive about what they want.

I think it's just so amazing to be able to just give them this. thing that lays it all out for them. And I'm super, super proud of you. Thank you. That you're doing this work. There's also like a lot to be learned from your experiences, so I don't think I would have changed anything, but I think it's absolutely beautiful.

And I cannot wait to see all the young women that grow up empowered with this information. Yeah, me too. Me too. Awesome.

[00:10:00] So tell me, as a middle school teacher, What did you see being taught to our daughters, and why you feel that there's a need to supplement their knowledge? 

[00:10:11] Megan: I think maybe it's a little bit about kind of what I was hinting at before, but I think It's taught, at least this is what I was kind of hearing from my students and, you know, talking with some of the other teachers and they're getting ready for this unit and that kind of thing where, yeah, it's this kind of sterile presentation of the facts, kind of like what you'd expect in science class about, you know, learning about other animals or just like the natural world where it's kind of separate from Um, Like really an embodied experience, you know what I mean?

It's kind of like, here are the facts. And I certainly remember that from my own schooling, you know, it was a video that you watch and you might learn some of the practical things like this is a tampon and here's where you put a tampon. And maybe if they've got into that much detail, or here's how much blood you lose, that kind of thing, but it's really not.

[00:11:00] anything about how you care for your body, or even like celebrating how amazing it is that we have these cycles and that they can give us so much information. It's kind of just like, well, you're in seventh grade now. And in seventh grade, we watch this video or in fifth grade or whatever it is, and girls, you're going to get a period and this is what it is.

And it's just, yeah, I feel like it's kind of missing even like the spark of excitement or the sweetness of. Being able to share this is what's going to happen. And like, we as women, we have like this gift that we're given of a menstrual cycle and here's kind of how we steward it. And one of the things that I say throughout the course is like, you and your body are on the same team, which like the wording of that isn't great.

Cause I think we are our bodies in some ways, but we're not just our bodies. But that idea that like your body isn't out to get you, it's not this period cramps or periods happen to you. It's like, That is your body doing its thing. And so how do we kind of bring a unification between our bodies and our minds and, you know, I believe our spirits too, but you know, to experience this cycle in a more thoughtful way versus just like periods.

Now here's pads. And you know, I guess it's kind of like, yeah, just kind of sterile. Here's the things you need to go buy to clean up your mess. You know that you're made, that your body makes every month. And so I think, I didn't hear any girls talk about. Like there was no excitement around it. There was no, it was just kind of like, oh, you know, I have to go through this thing.

And then that was reflected in also their experiences of having periods of no sort that I could tell it was just this, like, can I borrow a pad? My period started, you know, that kind of thing. Cause I would always have pads and stuff in my classroom. They knew they could ask if they needed it. So, which is very different than the feedback that I am getting from moms and from girls who fill out little feedback form for me of like, there is an excitement about their periods.

You're like, Oh, I had no idea that it was so cool.

[00:13:00] Or like that it could be so. Empowering, you know, using that exact language, but like one mom recently told me, cause there's a mom share portion in each of the sections and where moms share their own experience about that part of growing up. And so I have moms share about their first periods and what they remember and kind of their emotions surrounding it.

And mom had shared with me that she was telling her daughter about how embarrassed she was. She didn't know what was going on. And that was kind of this kind of shameful experience for her. Then I have girls later on reflect on like how they were feeling about periods, and she said she saw that her daughter had written that she was excited.

And you know, she spelled it like E X S I D E D or something like that, you know, she was excited for her period to start, you know, and her mom was just like, that was so amazing to see that like here her daughter was going to have a very different experience than her. And so, I think, again, yeah, that kind of, that.

that spark, which is interesting because it's all, I mean, puberty and many ways it's all about fertility, you know, which is your focus too. But fertility is not just this, like having babies, or it's not just like this scientific cycle. Like it's this life energy, you know, it's like creativity, like all of the, it's a very broad, or I think it should be kind of considered in a more broad way.

And so I want to be able to be a part of sparking that excitement for. Life in cycles and all of that earlier, which I have not seen come out of the school system at all. So, yeah, well, yeah, 

[00:14:30] Loren: I love that. And I agree. There's so much deep personalization and detachment. And I think that the fact that that starts so early.

And you know, even earlier, but you will see that as women get older and then they start to deal with cycle issues that really have repercussions when they're trying to get pregnant. And then it's this whole battle of trying to merge.

[00:15:00] Their cycle the thought of this thing that's supposed to be like it's my cycle What does it have to do with my health or anything like that?

And the stuff that I'm doing every day does not impact this thing that's happening to me But in reality, it's all part of the same experience And so I think that that's really beautiful because you're already bringing that in tune ness and the bodily awareness Because that is so hard to create and build, and it can really provide so much advantage, not just in terms of health and wellness, but also mental well being too, as this young woman grows.

And so, I think that that is amazing. Yeah. I love it. So on that note too, because you mentioned this sort of feeling of embarrassment, and I think many parents, at least from my parents generation, were on the more avoidant side of the topic of like, you know, sex ed and period health. And my mom was kind of like, so this is what's going to happen.

But that's it. She was really excited when I got my period, but everyone else in my friend's circle was like, Oh yeah, this sucks. Like, it's like a really strange dichotomy of emotions. Like my grandmother and my mother were super excited and just like, Oh, and my friends were just like, Oh, this sucks. And this is such a burden, but.

Regardless, there was still not a lot of information that came out of it. The excited half of my experience, and I've pretty much heard the same from all my peers, and that excitement kind of also made the embarrassment a little worse too. And so why do you think that is? And what could be some of the repercussions of not sharing this information with young women and daughters?

[00:16:59] Megan: I'm sure there's a lot of reasons. I mean, I think for some moms and I got this and I was even just telling moms like, Oh, I'm making this course. It was this kind of feeling of like, well, I don't even really know exactly what's going on with my cycle or even my period. So I'm like, when you see like you had a period for.

A long time at this point of being a mom, but then when you think about like, okay, how do I actually describe what is happening? I think for a lot of women, it's kind of like, what's kind of the order again? Or like, why exactly do you have this kind of, it's all very vague. And so when you start to think about actually explaining it, it's a little bit nerve wracking because you realize, even though you have a lot of experience with it in your body.

You don't exactly know how to translate that to information to your daughter, so I think there's just the kind of lack of knowledge, which again, just stems from like, their mom also didn't know, and so, and their mom before them also didn't really know, depending on, I think that's probably the common experience, I'm sure there are exceptions, but then kind of lack of knowledge, and then, I mean, also, it's such [00:18:00] a web of Big topics that you stumble into, you know, so it's like you have periods and then like just off to the side is like sex and then like just off to the side, you know, it's like you have relationships and just off to the side, you know, so you have all of these things that I think are a lot in themselves to talk about and figure out how you want to approach them or maybe you have had negative experiences with any of those or all of those and so you're not wanting to.

Maybe revisit that in yourself, or you're not wanting to unload that on your daughter, and so it's just much easier to kind of turn away and just hope your daughter, you know, doesn't start her period until she's much older. Maybe you thought about it or, you know, something like that. So, yeah, there's that component and, yeah, being maybe nervous to open up a can of worms or, you know, your daughter's going to ask you something that, You don't know how to answer then because you've introduced a certain topic.

[00:19:00] So I can totally understand and empathize with, with why it's probably so much easier for moms not to go there or just feel apprehensive about going there with any of the puberty or sex ed conversations. And I think there's also, I think I have gotten a number of moms who have reached out and said, Oh, my daughter started her period.

I mean, she's 10 or 11 or something like that. And maybe they started their periods and they were. 13 or 14 or something like that. So to them, it's like, Oh, it feels so young that their daughter started their period. And there's this kind of sense of like, Oh my gosh, my child is not like she's already experiencing this more adult thing.

And so I think it's also complex because it's very emotional for moms. I don't think starting your period makes you an adult, but it definitely is a part of your maturation process as a person or as a woman. And so. There's just those emotional layers too of like, you know, not wanting maybe your little girl to grow up and in a period of such a sign of getting older.

[00:20:00] And so it's really a whole web of potentially uncomfortable feelings for moms. So, but I mean, I think the repercussions of that are when we don't understand something. We almost always interpret it negatively, you know, that's just kind of a fact of how our minds work, and so there are so many changes that happen during puberty, and if you aren't given any heads up or any explanation of like, oh yeah, no, that, that might seem weird, but that's actually totally normal, your mind will fill in.

often a negative interpretation of what that change is. So I can't tell you how many women have told me I was convinced I had breast cancer when I got breast buds because, you know, you have a hard little lump suddenly show up on your chest and you're like, I'm going to die, you know, or you weren't told about periods.

And then suddenly there's all of this like red stuff in your underwear. And you're like, Am I bleeding out? Am I going to die? You know, like all these things that, you know, we kind of can jump really quickly to like, they're really intense and scary. And unless you have a dynamic with your mom, where you can go and share those things or those fears.

You don't. And so then here you are this eight year old or nine year old or even 10 or 11 year old who's just like walking around nothing like I think I'm dying, you know, like you don't know who to tell. So it's just, it's so sad that I think that's a relatively common experience for girls who don't know about the changes that there.

bodies going through. So again, it's like as much, it's hard to go there in those conversations, like thinking about what can happen when girls don't know is also something that you have to contend with. And is that an experience that you want your daughter to go through? Thank 

[00:21:44] Loren: you for that. Yeah. It's such a vulnerable time where there's so much going on and The addition of all these changes can really be so overwhelming.

I guess on the flip side, what are some of the [00:22:00] benefits of having these types of conversations, especially that you've seen come out of the mother daughter relationships in your program? 

[00:22:08] Megan: Yeah. I mean, it's interesting. It was kind of cool thinking about, like, my experience as an English teacher. But we talk about literacy a lot, and why is literacy so important?

And one of the big reasons that literacy is so important is because it allows you to not be taken advantage of. You know, it's like, if you can't read, you are so vulnerable. You are vulnerable to being given a contract, having no idea what it says, and signing away your rights, your life, whatever it is.

And so Being able to be literate is such a ticket out of a number of really unfortunate scenarios that can happen to you. And so, I think thinking about body literacy, it's exactly the same benefits that are playing out for you. If you don't know What is normal for your body if you don't know what's not normal and for example, like really heavy periods or even period pain

[00:23:00] And you just think that's just part of what it means to be a woman because that's how many women talk like welcome to being A woman like pain, you know that kind of thing.

Like that's kind of how a number of women talk And even I still see reels out all the time, you know, about like, just kind of talking about period pain or periods in a way that is maybe trying to lighten the mood as far as like, look at what we all have to experience, but it's still not highlighting like, wait, that's not normal.

It's not normal to be like taking a bottle of ibuprofen and like laying on the couch for the first two days of your cycle, you know, all of those things. So even that, that might be relatable. That's not normal. And so if you think that's just normal. That's what puts you on the track of accepting, I think, the more kind of conventional advice about what you should do, which is how many women end up on something like hormonal birth control as a 13 year old or a 12 year old or something because they don't know that what they're experiencing is a sign that their body is like, I need more support.

So even like in my course, I talk about, you know, I think we should rename PMS to please more support, you know, cause that's really what your body is asking for. It's not this like, Oh, again, this is just part of being a woman, part of having a period. It's like your body is so wise and so intelligently designed.

It has all these ways to get your attention. And so when we learn, Oh, I should actually listen, you know, like my body's crying for help. It's not trying to punish me that. I think opens the door for like, oh, okay, I can work with my body here. What are some solutions rather than what pill is going to shut this process down?

Because it, you know, I just don't want to experience it. And again, like no judgment people who go in that route, because I think I can see how you get there. You know, like if you don't have the information about what those things are going to do to your body, like, of course, again, no one wants to experience debilitating.

Period pain. I think it's more so just about learning the things that that pain could be [00:25:00] communicating that allow you to. work with your body, I guess, rather than against it. I mean, I think the other part too, is just the bonding that can happen when you have those kinds of conversations with your daughter.

And that's just so powerful. I mean, that's really one of the main pieces of feedback that I get from moms is just that the course helped them to Start some of these conversations that they're wanting to have. And that, I mean, one of the most common pieces of feedback I get is like, and we were so sad when it ended, you know, and so like we wanted to keep having, you know, so for some moms, they like, if they were watching the course on Monday nights together, they like decided to keep doing that or they kind of keep having some sort of, they have like an easier way of connecting and not that you need my course to connect with your daughter, but it's, that's built into the core design of it is that it, and I even say it in the course, like this is.

will hopefully just be the start of many conversations that you continue to have together. And I think sometimes just having that third person, like that third point to kind of start things off is really helpful. And I know for me, even if my mom had known more about the female body or whatever, I think there would have been some resistance in me as a preteen.

Like I had a hard time just like learning. From my mom or from I was just like, okay, we're gonna sit down. We're gonna have this conversation. I'm going to teach you all these things. I think, I mean, it reveals a bunch of things about myself and personality that maybe I don't like, but I would have had kind of a hard time of just listening.

It would have been the like, you know, kind of thing. But when you're both watching something together and then turning and talking about it, like you're having this

I'm like, hearing my mom say these words, maybe we don't talk about in this way normally or something like that, and so I think that's part of the bonding too. It's like you've both experienced something together, and maybe moms have learned in the process, so they're sharing like, oh, I didn't know that.

And so it becomes this, um, thing that then you can even reference. I have a number of moms who will tell me their daughters are like, remember when Miss Megan said this, whatever, which I love, where it becomes this kind of thing you can point back to, like, remember this? Like I thought of another question about blah, blah, blah.

And it just, I think becomes easier to talk, which is like, that's a lot of currency for those teen years and preteen years, you know, just having that ability to talk about those things more easily.

[00:27:21] Loren: My goodness, yes. What I've heard so many of my friends who have teenage children is that they tend to start to close up and they get sad because they used to have this really open relationship and open line of communication and now it's just like they're struggling emotionally with that just change and I think that that In itself, this program's ability to just like open that line of communication back up, especially when your child's going through such a vulnerable time, is just such an amazing way to revitalize that relationship, but also support your daughter as she's going through this, rather than having to deal with, Oh, I guess that's how she is now.

Laughter. Yeah, that's beautiful. I totally love everything that you said. And I think this is a good segue to because there are so many changes that can come along with puberty and many can feel so weird and so new. And I'm wondering if there are any changes that are often overlooked in puberty conversations, but that you think are important to make sure that your daughter knows about.

[00:28:34] Megan: Yeah, for sure. I mean, one is breast buds for sure. Remembering that like there'll be often like hard. Lumps, which again is kind of concerning. It's interesting. I think like breast cancer awareness is something that is talked about more and even like I know around here There's like billboards sometimes that you like discovering hard like those kinds of things and so I think in part because cancer is Kind of more in the public eye, I'm wondering too if that's going to lead to even more girls being like, Oh, what is this?

I found a lump in my breast and like those kinds of things. And so I think just communicating that, like, that's a normal stage of development. And also that breast buds don't always grow in at the same time. So it's also normal to have like one and not another for a couple of months. And that's fine. And even like breasts might not be exactly the same size either, you know, even when they're, they're done developing.

And so there's just so much variation of what is normal, which is. Something that I try to really teach in my class too. I think there's just so much insecurity about like, does this look right? You know, and you don't have a way of, of knowing that for the most part. And so there is a wide range of normal of what things can look like, but also having that communication is important.

It's like, Oh yeah, but still, you know, like welcoming their questions and things like that. Cause obviously there are things that aren't normal. So breast buds would be one. Often first periods are brown, they're not red. So if girls are expecting blood, I don't think of brown when I think of blood, but that's what I think of red.

[00:30:00] And so I have heard from a number of friends, a number of women that they were convinced they had pooped their pants and didn't even realize they'd started their period, you know? And so that can be helpful to address. And it's interesting too, just when you don't Know much about something like you just are also vulnerable to Misunderstandings about things or like you can take wording in a really funny way So I just have heard a whole spectrum of examples of like, oh my mom said, you know You'd get your period once a month.

And so I thought it was just like one day So I wore a pad for one day and then I didn't the next day cuz I felt like oh I got my one once a month Period. You know, like that kind of thing. And so I think just trying to kind of think through all of those details of like, what does an experience of a period actually look like or what can it look like is helpful and just kind of like playing like, what are different ways that this could be taken, you know, when you're thinking about how we talk about some of these changes.

Another one is vaginal discharge. I know for some girls, like that's a really big thing where it's like, what is this? And, you know, affirming again, that that is normal and that often shows that, you know, maybe six months before. You begin your period, you know, that sign that estrogen levels are rising in the body.

And for some girls, like, it is a really weird experience. I was glad that I had a number of friends bring that up to me when I was making the program. I started, you know, just like polling all the women I knew, like, what do you wish you'd known about your body? And that was one that came up a lot that I had kind of forgotten about myself.

But I think, you know, once you start your cycle, like, you're kind of used to these slightly different sensations or things where you're just like, Yeah, things flowing out of your, your vagina, you know, you were just like, okay, you have your period and you have different cervical fluid levels during your cycle, but as a girl, that's very new to be like, what is in my underwear and like, what was that and why does it feel different when I wipe or those kinds of things.

So just remembering like, Oh yeah, I have to kind of explain that this is part of the new. experience and that it's very normal life. So I know for some friends of mine, they just wanted to wear panty liners all the time because they felt like, oh, they were wet, you know, that was bad and all that kind of stuff.

So yeah, discharge was one that I had almost kind of forgotten about, but could be kind of scary. Like what is coming out of me? You know, again, that being a totally new experience, there's so many more, but I think those are just three to start with that can hopefully avoid some. Some nervousness and anxiety.

[00:32:27] Loren: Hey, it's Loren. I hope you're enjoying the conversation. If you're an adult woman looking to track your cycle and learn fertility awareness, don't forget that I have a Fertility Awareness Masterclass where you can learn exactly how to track your cycle, including during scenarios like trying to conceive, coming off birth control, post loss, irregular sex life.

Cycles postpartum and more. And if you're looking for ways to optimize your cycle to get pregnant, make sure to check out Conscious Conception, my pregnancy prep e-course, where I not only teach you how to boost your egg quality, progesterone levels and more, but the exact steps you need to take for whatever cycle abnormality or irregularity you might be dealing with.

from long follicular phases to anovulation to amenorrhea to luteal phase defects and so much more. Visit innatefertility. org slash get dash pregnant to learn more. And if you're loving the episode, please make sure to leave a review. Now back to the show.

Well, those really hit home for me because they were two out of three I experienced as a young woman and or a teenager, I should say. And actually, no, not even a teenager when I was 12. That's when I got my period. It was. Brown and it was Christmas. I remember that too.

Yep. So that was a really wonderful gift. And no, I really, it was just a little surprising to be dealing with that excitement on Christmas . But yeah, and then the cervical fluid was another one. I was always so confused about it. And yeah, I feel like definitely was not educated on what it meant. I thought I had an infection all the time.

I'm like, I'm gonna die. And that also led me back to a memory that I have of when I was sick as a child and my lymph nodes were protruding a little bit. And that was like, When I feel like cancer really started to get talked about in the media and I was like, oh my gosh The next time we went to my pediatrician I was like, am I dying?

Can you check my neck? I have these bumps on my neck Like oh, sweetie. Those are your lymph nodes They're just a little protruding because you were just sick what you're saying in the experiences that you're sharing are just So relatable to me, and I'm sure they are for many other women listening, but also for many of the teenagers and children that are experiencing their periods for the first time too.

So I love that you share about these things because If I had known that these things were normal, I feel like I would have just had a little more ease. 

[00:35:12] Megan: Right? Totally. There's enough to be stressed about just in general that we can't really change, but we can learn more about our bodies. 

[00:35:20] Loren: Yes. Well, I would love to hear on that note too, what are some of the shifts you notice or hear about the girls that take your program once they have started these conversations with their mothers?

[00:35:32] Megan: In some ways, I'm limited to just like the moms. And daughters who decide to reach out with the follow up. But, I mean, I think one of the big things is feeling like they know what to do. Like, they have more tools for situations that might come up. And even if a girl hasn't even started her period yet, I think just knowing that Oh, there are some things that I could try if I got period pain.

It's like really comforting to girls, which is a big piece of what I'm trying to offer. It's just like hope. And you know, there are lots of resources out there, even if they're not all in my course, just that, like, there's a lot to learn out there about your body and things that you can try.

[00:36:13] Loren: So, the theme of what we've been talking about is that the female cycle is a marker for health and it's not detached from your being.

And you're trying to bring that together. But I would love to hear from you if you have noticed anything that's super common that gets uncovered when mothers and daughters start having these conversations that maybe are normal or maybe not so normal and then they can take proactive action on. 

[00:36:38] Megan: I haven't exactly heard in testimonials or that kind of thing, like, no one has shared with me things that have been necessarily avoided or something like that, but I think thinking about a few of the topics that I wanted to teach about in the course because I'd heard so many women say that they wish they had avoided certain things or that they wish they had known would be avoided.

I mean, so I do talk about things like heavy periods, which I think are a very common experience that, that often gets overlooked and I have had a number of people that I know in my own life who even, you know, went to the ER or went to their doctor and said like, I'm bleeding this much and like, Oh, well you just have a heavier than normal period and that's just kind of treated as normal.

So I started to kind of, you know, introduce ideas like that. Again, these are. Little messages our body is sending us that it needs some more support and isn't just another Variation of normal big piece, which I kind of mentioned at the beginning is that we have to fuel our bodies you know, we can't expect a car to run without gas and so expecting to Eat a bag of chips and then go to your soccer practice and do your thing like that just our bodies need more than that and that our menstrual cycles don't run just on their own without any sort of fuel, you know, that our hormones like this whole system.

[00:38:00] In our bodies, like all systems in our bodies needs fuel and our fuel coming from good nourishment that we're putting into ourselves. And so I do talk, I don't go into great detail about nourishment, but I do talk about even things like choosing where you can more balanced snacks. So we talked about like a little snack planner and I have kind of like protein, carbs and fat and kind of talking about like, how can you make a snack that has all of those things in it?

And, you know, I certainly wouldn't. refuse an apple or something or not just eat an apple. Someone gave me an apple and I was hungry, but where I have the choice, I might choose to eat that with some cheese or with some yogurt or, you know, those kinds of things because our body needs this whole kind of collection of nutrients to function.

And so my hope is just by even just introducing those concepts, it kind of avoids that light bulb moment when you're much older of like, Oh, I have been essentially starving myself for years, you know, that's a piece of the puzzle of why my period experience sucks or like why I'm having all of these issues or why I don't experience a period as regularly as I'm told is normal or those kinds of things.

[00:39:10] Loren: Yeah, that's awesome. I love that piece that you include about nutrition because I remember when, around the time I got my period, my lunches consisted of not super often, but frequently enough of like just French fries from the cafeteria and the zebra cakes. And that would be my lunch. And I thought that was fine.

[00:39:33] Megan: Exactly. Cause you're like, I'm eating food. Like you just think food. You don't think like building blocks of nutrition 

[00:39:39] Loren: or anything. Mm hmm. Things have definitely changed, but my gosh, and that plays such a huge role into how your period goes and how you feel overall in your skin health. You know, there's so many girls breaking out like crazy and boys too around that age and it can just totally shift how you experience that phase of life.

Just, even that little nutritional shift can make such a huge difference. For sure. Yeah. I would love to hear what you're hearing from moms and daughters in your course on this topic. I've seen more and more in my practice that there are more and more extremes happening with girls in this country. There are a lot of them getting their cycles as early as like seven or eight years old 17 or 18, and they still haven't gotten their periods yet.

A lot of what we've been talking about just now, too, plays a role, but if you have any sort of theories on why this 

[00:40:40] Megan: is. I'm feeling like I'm getting more and more messages about it, and whether or not, like, maybe their daughter's gotten their period at 7 or 8, maybe it's like they're getting breast buds or body hair, some of those things that are evidence that the puberty process is starting pretty early.

Yeah, it's such an interesting topic, and it's interesting that There is so much question around it. You know what I mean? It's not like something that you Google and it's like, Yep, here's the answer. It's like people in a number of different fields are trying to figure out why exactly is this happening and proposing different theories and things like that.

I mean, obviously some of the theories are that body weight plays a role that endocrine disruptors in our environment and our food plays a role. And I think those are compelling for sure. And And I would guess a piece of the puzzle. One that is interesting to me that I've been looking into more recently is the role of leptin and melatonin, the puberty hormones, the gonadotropins, those kind of like the release of those, neither, well, so like for melatonin, there's a link with when you have a dip in melatonin, more cispeptin is released.

release of it, and then that has a role in gonadotropin. There isn't strong evidence that that's starting the puberty process, but that's like a piece of all of these things. Like, why is the pituitary gland starting to release these hormones and all of that kind of thing?

[00:42:00] And what's interesting about both leptin and melatonin is they are Like circadian rhythm controlled and that thinking about light or in the case of melatonin, darkness, thinking about our world, our modern world, like that is a huge shift.

We have so many shifts from the centuries and centuries before us, but that, I mean, like artificial light and screens, all of that. And the use of them, even in the past few years, compared to what it was in my childhood. Like, that's a huge shift. And there's really interesting research about how many more instances of early puberty were documented.

during the COVID window and just after. And so I was reading an article talking about also like the use of screens and like lack of outdoor time in that window of time as well. And blue light inhibits melatonin production. And then once kids start the puberty process too, there's all this interesting stuff where they become more sensitive to light in the evening.

So looking at a screen or being under artificial light is more inhibitory of melatonin than it is when you're an adult. And also then the opposite of that, that they need more light in the morning to actually kind of wake up than adults do. So there's like this interesting circadian rhythm shift that happens when kids are in puberty.

And I'm really intrigued about maybe this kind of circadian rhythm component. as well that I haven't heard talked about as much, but just feels like a piece of the larger puzzle and just our general health and fertility. But to me, I mean, those things just seem like they would have to play a role. And it's hard to me because everyone's bodies are so different.

So that's also always mysterious. And you're talking about anything. I'm like, well, I have multiple kids and they didn't both. Go through early, you know, like that kind of thing, but it's always our bodies are all built differently as far as what we're more resilient to or less resilient to and that kind of thing.

I have more research and investigation to that topic, but moms are definitely concerned about it. And for good reason, I'd love to hear some of your theories or if you have any. 

[00:44:05] Loren: Yeah, thanks for sharing. That's super fascinating. I actually have that as an asterisk in my to do list for precocious puberty, the role of leptin and melatonin because I forget where I first heard about the connection between that possibly being a trigger.

Screen time. I can't remember but I've also heard that. I'm so glad you're already like researching. I do think it can absolutely play a role and it makes sense because I've done extensive research on how that plays a role in just being able to get pregnant in general and the circadian rhythm, the way it controls, All the sex hormones and thyroid hormones and how important it is to regulate your circadian rhythm for your fertility in general.

So I can absolutely see why that could play a role in terms of puberty, when maybe bringing it on early or delaying it. I do think endocrine disruptors are a huge component and in that way, like, blue light is an endocrine disruptor. True, yeah. You know, exposure to more heavy metals, exposure to more chemicals in the water, like that.

Those are all endocrine disruptors, the chemicals you put on your body, you spray on your skin. And so, I think endocrine disruptors as a whole, in general, are probably the reason. I remember when I was It's eight years old in dance school. There were two girls who were my friends and one of them got her period at eight years old.

She already had blossomed at eight years old. There was another girl who, same thing, but she Had really horrible periods that she'd have to actually go to the hospital because she lose so much blood and so this has been going on for a long time and I've seen it and back then I was like, that's really weird.

I feel terrible for them. I'm glad it's not happening to me. But now that I'm [00:46:00] older and have The more wherewithal and knowledge, I'm like, there definitely something was going on and that is not normal. And I feel like that would have been really scary for me as a child to go through. I do think also I've been looking more into pheromones and how they can play a role.

And on the Andrew Huberman podcast, he talked about this, where it's interesting how pheromones can play a role because There was, I guess, a study done on girls who had exposure to father's pheromones versus not, and the girls that did have exposure to their father's pheromones, and this is kind of what the authors concluded, it was the pheromone exposure that resulted in this, but the girls who had a father figure around, biological father figure.

They got their periods later than the precocious puberty group who didn't have a father figure around. And it was all having to do with the pheromone exposure [00:47:00] of the male figures. And the girls who didn't have a father figure but were exposed to a reproductively active male were likely to get their period sooner.

So the father's pheromones in some way kind of shielded them from the early onset of their periods. 

[00:47:19] Megan: So interesting, yeah.

[00:47:21] Loren: I think there's even more that we don't understand and that we're only starting to understand and there could be so many factors that are playing into this, but I do think for sure that endocrine receptors probably have a lot to do with it and who knows what else we'll find out in the next couple years.

[00:47:40] Megan: Totally. Yeah. No, for sure. Yeah. All that stuff is so interesting. I'm glad that you brought up that study because I remember a friend of mine telling me about that years ago, not in as much detail, but just being mind blown by that. Idea. Yeah, and I'm excited to jump back into that study because I have like so many questions about specifics of it I think it's also interesting to you.

I think this is something I've been doing more and more in my own kind of health Detective work is also trying not to overlook the very basic like emotional Components or put things back as emotional questions to myself and not that they're always Anyway, and this has come in part from dabbling in a little bit, you know, like germany medicine and some of those kinds of things, but we're even just thinking about, you know, if a girl is starting process of sexual maturation early, what she's internalized about and not saying this as like a prescription at all, but it just makes me curious, like, you know, what is she internalizing from her environment about how she needs to show up in the world or like what she needs to do maybe to protect herself or to, you know, be safe or like those kinds of things or if she's not starting her period till 17 or 18.

I think all of that nutrition, like all of those components are so important to look into. And then also, what are the emotional components of that too, of like, what would make your body from an emotional? standpoint, want to delay something like sexual maturation, you know, are you protecting yourself from something?

Are you thinking you're protecting yourself or something? Yeah. There's all those little things that, you know, even like sometimes I've got like shoulder pain or something. I'm like, okay, is there something I'm carrying, like feeling like I need to carry around that I maybe don't and trying to think through some of those things.

First, and then exploring other like, Oh, maybe I need to up my magnesium or like whatever it is, but just like not leaving off that side of, you know, or of acne, like, am I feeling dirty or embarrassed about something that I am wanting to hide, you know, like all of those kinds of things that I just find to be interesting and productive to think about as well as the.

Kind of environmental explanations. 

[00:49:46] Loren: That's such a good point. And I think starting to create that awareness at a younger age is so important too. And yeah, I totally agree. Your expression of health, your fertility is an expression of what's going on inside you and how you're internalizing, again, your environment.

And it's your response to things and how you're processing them. So. I totally agree. And I think that's such an important thing to bring up. So thank you for that. It's definitely a big piece of my work as well in terms of fertility. So I'm super glad you said that. So I have another question and that's around birth control.

Cause the beginning of this conversation kind of included that as a consideration for managing your cycle. And it certainly has been a part of my own experience too. So I'm curious to know. What the perception of birth control is by the mothers and possibly the daughters that you might be hearing in your program?

I'm curious to know if it's being pushed as much as it used to be I guess around the time especially in my 20s or late teens and How it's being received now, and it might be difficult to answer this question because by default the mothers and daughters in your program are taking the more proactive sort of holistic approach, but I'm just really curious to hear if you've heard anything from them.

[00:51:13] Megan: Yeah, that's a good question. I think I've had a number of women who've shared their kind of health journey with me and why they're interested in. Offering something different to their daughters or for their daughters. So birth control does come up a lot in the context of mom's stories who are like, I want something different for my daughters because I realized as an older adult that birth control Totally sabotaged my hormonal health for years, and maybe they were put on it as a teen or, you know, when they went in with their mom for maybe even their acne or something like that, that was what was given to them.

And now they're realizing because of more awareness around what hormonal birth control does to the body, then they realized, Oh my gosh, that didn't help me at all, you know, in a holistic way, I guess.

[00:52:00] And so I would say that many of the moms that are coming to me. Already kind of have the lived experience of, I want my daughter to have something different.

And so even just the refrain about period pain is common, but not normal. I mean, I probably heard that first maybe seven years ago or something, but I feel like even in those seven years, just how often I see that come up in the social media health world is just, it's so much more widespread. And so even something like that, I think gets people thinking.

Okay, well, if it's not normal, then, you know, maybe why would I go in and go this route if I should maybe figure out what my body's trying to say? So I feel like there is more awareness that there are other steps you can take before birth control. And maybe, I mean, it's hard to know. It's also hard to know because I feel like my algorithm, I'm always aware when like my husband and I are like comparing reels or something like, wow, your algorithm is so completely different than mine is.

So I'm, even what I see on social media is just kind of my algorithm, but you know, tends to be more. Kind of a wariness about just kind of prescriptions and that kind of pharmaceutical model in general. And so, yeah, I do think there is much more hesitancy around it, whereas like my mom's generation, or even my generation, it was a lot more accepting of it.

Yeah, I guess I'm sure you know more about the menstrual cycle than I do, like, I'll take that pill and it's supposed to regulate my cycle. I think people don't have that same trust in general anymore. Yeah, 

[00:53:31] Loren: I think more and more they're less satisfied with that answer. and more curious as to why things are happening, which is, I love this shift.

I am so here for it. So I think that that's great. And I just want to clarify too for the audience, when I say birth control and when Megan says birth control, we're talking about hormonal and non hormonal contraceptive methods, typically the IUDs, the birth control pills, those kinds of things, not necessarily [00:54:00] condoms or even fertility awareness, which is a method of birth control.

So I just wanted to clarify that and. This is not a judgment on anyone who has chosen to take birth control. I myself have taken it for several years in the past, so just sharing experiences here and trying to share information. One question for you. Do you have any advice for mothers out there wanting to but struggling to discuss the topic of puberty with their daughter?

[00:54:27] Megan: A couple things that come to mind. One is taking some time to learn about your own body from sources that are talking about the female body and, uh, yeah, maybe like a more life giving way and our kind of empowering way so that when you do have those conversations with your daughter, it can come out of more of a place of, of excitement or a comfortability with your own body of maybe appreciation of, of the female body.

Yeah. Because yeah, if you've been told your whole life as a woman and it's a mom that like being a woman is just kind of painful and like your best hope is to like stock up on heating pads and ibuprofen and stuff for your daughter before she becomes a woman, you know, like if that's what female health is to you, that will be hard to have those conversations with her.

I think more so than if you have felt really within your own body that. Your own cycle is something to be excited about. I think everyone needs to love their periods. I don't think, and I even say that in my course, like trying to talk about the four parts of the menstrual cycle is the four different seasons of nature.

And like, it's okay if you have a favorite season of nature and like, don't exactly love another one, but knowing that. All play a role and that there are things you can do to kind of adapt in each season that can make your experience more enjoyable. And that's what I hope girls and moms get from the course.

I think kind of maybe mom's approaching it in that way to like, can they get themselves to a place where they feel comfortable in their [00:56:00] own bodies? And knowing what's going on is going to be a lot less intimidating. And then another, like, practical note, just thinking about communication, I have a, one of my freebies is called Let's Connect.

And in the guide, I talk about how to make a hidden journal with your daughter. Because I think there's also, just thinking about the ways that we communicate, I think it's pretty common for many moms to feel like their daughter is kind of, maybe retreat, or it's like you get into the cycle of how's your day?

Good, fine. You know, and you know, you're not maybe getting as much detail or it means some girls, every girl is different. So some. are totally fine to share all the details of their life, but just thinking about other options for keeping those lines of communication open, especially on these topics that can feel kind of awkward.

You know, if your mom's making dinner and your little brother's sitting at the table, it's hard to walk in and be like, so breast buds, you know, like you need some kind of special time sometimes to figure out how to start those conversations. And so I have this.

[00:57:00] Kind of hidden journal where you can make a journal together and kind of come up with some little communication codes where, you know, maybe if you write a one, that means that whatever you've written on the page, you want the other person to just know about, but you don't want to talk about it in person.

Or maybe if you write a two in the corner of the page, that means like, can we find a time to talk about this? And you could also just write down how you want the other person to respond, but then you have kind of hiding spots where you have this journal. And then you, maybe I suggest like under one another's pillows and bed, you know, it's kind of hidden away, but it's this.

little, yeah, line of communication between moms and daughters of like, can we find a time to talk about? So I want to talk to you. That takes away a little bit of that face to face awkwardness that some people, not just teens or preteens can find around any of these topics. And I've just heard a number of moms who have said, you know, I thought my daughter was a really private person and it turns out she just.

will unload her heart on the page for me, like she wanted to share, she just didn't know how to do that face to face, or she didn't know when to do that. And so I think exploring other ways of having these conversations and not that I think like your whole puberty conversation should be over text or in a journal or something, but just realizing kind of the.

other things that can be put in place to allow for easier communication. If even a mom is wanting to talk about this stuff, but struggling because maybe it feels like your daughter never wants to talk about it or like it, maybe the times you're bringing it up, she's closed off. And so kind of finding ways of communication at work for both of you can be helpful

[00:58:27] Loren: That's really beautiful. That's like a really an intentional way to find more opportunities, like an intentional opportunity. And I think, again, having heard my friends with teenagers just about their kids and just closing up, I feel like oftentimes it's just they don't know how to put into words what they're feeling.

So I think that that's an amazing way to get it. Your kids to open up to you and your daughter and that's beautiful that you facilitate that in your program, because what better way to just not only talk about this stuff, but also just create a stronger relationship with your daughter. I love this. Okay, I promise I only have two more questions.

Of course. What's one thing that you would like to share with the audience that they can start doing today to unlock the innate wisdom of their body?

[00:59:24] Megan: I've had a number of years where I've really dug into pieces that I think were missing in my concept of what health was and how to honor the body. So into nutrition and maybe nourishment more broadly and things like that.

But I started to realize that those things had kind of I was putting so much weight on how I thought I was supposed to be caring for my body that that in itself became a little bit toxic. And so, for me now, I feel like trying to pay more attention to my thoughts and the ways that I'm thinking about Ironically, thinking about caring for my body, I'm trying to be more aware of that and realizing, you know, how many nights I would lay in bed and think, Oh, I didn't eat my beef liver this morning.

You know, I'm sure I did not get enough grams of protein in today. Like all these, like I would kind of start running through, I need to take my magnesium tomorrow. And it just became this list of all these ways that I was failing to care for my body in the way that I thought I was supposed to be caring for my body.

Starting to try to give thoughts more weight and even kind of changing the script a little bit and of just being more thankful for my body, you know, working through like, Oh, I'm so grateful for like this. This is really working so well in my body. I'm so grateful for my audience. So proud of my body that it allows me to do this and that.

This part of me felt really great today, or whatever it is, just trying to add in the same way of like being a good teammate with your body or something. It's like if we only ever were just spouting off all the ways that, you know, we were failing or it was failing or whatever, it becomes a kind of toxic relationship.

And so even though I thought I was helping by trying to layer all these things I needed to do or things I needed to eat, I was creating this. Real just cycle of negativity for myself and being like, Oh, I bet tomorrow I'm going to be so hungry because I didn't give my body enough. Like I was starting to like probably self fulfilling prophecies for my body of like, because I thought I'd learned the science behind it.

And so now I was just waiting for the fatigue to kick in because I'm sure I had burned through my, you know, like all this kind of stuff, like my adrenal cocktail I didn't have. And so now my adrenal, all this stuff. And so kind of more so speaking the resilience. of my body kind of over myself and the goodness of my body and, you know, the things that I am proud of to have done to support my body that day and realizing that was a missing piece for me has been big and I think that just allows some of that repair to happen and allows me, I hope, to be more open to the messages my body is sending me.

[01:02:05] Loren: I think that's so important and for anyone to kind of incorporate and really take notice. especially if you're trying to conceive and also having possibly struggles. The way that you can start to talk to yourself can be really inhibitory and just energetically, like, not a good place. And I feel like With the obsession that is wellness and health, it can be really easy to fall into that stuff, especially if you're constantly scrolling on social media and seeing things that you should be doing and should be buying.

And like, it can get really out of control. And just being able to have that awareness and almost trust in your body that, okay, you missed a couple grams of protein, but you're going to be fine. And you're grateful you got those grams of protein that you did get it. And. You're grateful that you were able to go do this amazing walk, uh, 15 minute walk between your, I don't know, meetings and you got to spend time with your partner.

Like, it's so much more than just the things you need to do every day. I think that that is beautiful and I'm so glad you brought light to that because I think it's, especially in this sort of wellness space, it's so easy to get caught up in the details like that, so. I commend you for that. 

[01:03:34] Megan: I'm working on it, babe. It feels nice to be in that stage. 

[01:03:38] Loren: It's always a work in progress. Everything is. So, okay, well, Megan, it's been a pleasure having you. My last question is, how can people find you? 

[01:03:49] Megan: Yeah, I've had so much fun. The best, there's a few different places at my website. Bodytalkbasics. com is where I have a lot more information about my course.

I break down what I cover in each section and how you can access the course. And some of my freebies are there as well. And then kind of the, the main place where I live is what it feels like is on Instagram where I, yeah, have a really wonderful community of moms, but also just of women who love talking about.

Their bodies and I started it thinking it would be this Place where I could educate people and blah, blah, blah. And it's really more so turned into early fun, like, ladies night all the time, is what it feels like. I'm just women asking questions and I do a lot of polls and question box responses and things like that.

And about all kinds of body things, but also like What's your most embarrassing email address? You know, you're putting like those kinds of things where we can just kind of like laugh with each other and at ourselves, so it's a really fun. I try to keep it a very fun place because who needs more negativity in their life?

So yeah, would love to have people join me over there. Etsy shop and things like that too, but my main things are my website and my Instagram. Well, 

[01:05:08] Loren: amazing. I hope everyone goes and checks Megan's stuff out. Go follow her on Instagram. And if you have a daughter or niece or, you know, Granddaughter

[01:05:18] Megan:. I bet grandmas take it with their grandchild.

[01:05:21] Loren: Yeah. Anyone that you're caring for that's It's kind of close to or going through puberty. This is such an amazing resource. I've taken it myself, so I hope that you find as much joy taking it as clearly as Megan has had creating it. Well, thanks so much, Megan. We will talk soon. Thanks for coming on the show.

[01:05:46] Megan: Thank you so much for having me.

[01:05:50] Loren: Thank you so much for listening to the Innate Wisdom Podcast. If you enjoyed today's episode, please leave us a review and share the podcast with someone who you think might benefit. If you'renew here, we can't recommend enough that you take advantage of my free resources, like the Get Pregnant Yesterday Checklist, Psycholiteracy Guide, Prenatal Primer, and Sperm Booster Manual.

And if you're trying to conceive now or in the near future, I invite you to join my Pregnancy Prep eCourse, Conscious Inception. Make sure to follow me on Instagram too. at innate underscore fertility and consider joining my newsletter to receive exclusive content related to fertility and so much more.

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