Innate Wisdom Podcast

What It's About:

Join Loren Sofia, Functional Fertility Coach and owner of Innate Fertility, and Elizabeth Parsons, best known as Purely Parsons on Instagram, former pediatric registered nurse, a follower of Christ, wife, and mother to five (and to be six), as they discuss infant interventions.

In this episode, you’ll learn about:

-The meaning of “intervention”What exactly “infant interventions” are
-Maternal & infant death rates in the United States
-What immediate cord clamping is
-Alternatives & to immediate cord clamping & their benefits
-When antibiotic eye drops are necessary
-Why you might want to skip wiping off the vernix
-Pros, cons & alternatives to the Vitamin K and Hep B
-Things you might not know about the heel prick test
-Balanced perspectives on circumcision
-How to advocate for yourself & your infant

Transcript:

[00:00:00] Loren: Welcome to the Innate Wisdom Podcast. I'm your host, Loren Sofia, Functional Fertility Coach and owner of Innate Fertility, and I'm honored to guide you through each episode where we'll cover not just fertility, but how to rediscover the innate wisdom of your body, restore your connection with your physiology, bioenergetics and metabolism, and get back in touch with Mother Nature and ancestral traditions.

Welcome to another episode of the Innate Wisdom Podcast. On today's show, I'm incredibly excited to invite former pediatric registered nurse, wife and mother to five, and soon to be six, Elizabeth Parsons, also known as Purely Parsons on Instagram, to chat all about infant interventions, like cord clamping and eyedrops, all the way to the vitamin K shot and circumcision.

[00:01:00] Yes, we are going there. I really appreciate Elizabeth's perspective because she has a background in a clinical setting as a registered nurse and she's been in the westernized medical system, lived in it, birthed in it, and provided care in it. She's incredibly passionate about sharing her experiences as a nurse, but also as a mother, and looks to empower others with information they may not know about regarding natural alternatives.

I don't know about you, but topics like infant interventions can feel extremely polarizing. Like, you're not allowed to have an opinion somewhere in the middle, and you have to side with one extreme or the other. There's no middle ground. Which makes it all the more difficult to actually make a decision.

And if any of this has resonated with you, and if you're looking for more of a balanced, holistic perspective, keep listening to hear my conversation with Elizabeth. I really hope that you enjoy the show. Well, today I have Elizabeth Parsons from Purely Parsons on the Innate Wisdom podcast. Welcome, Elizabeth.

I'm so excited to have you.

It's super exciting to be here with you today and I'm super excited about our conversation. But before we dive in, I would love if you could share and just provide some context about your story, who you are and how you got to be where you are today and doing the work that you're doing.

[00:02:16] Elizabeth: Yeah, of course. I am Elizabeth Parsons. I am most well known on Instagram as purely Parsons, and I started sharing over there in a public way back in like 2018, 2019, and I never like intended this to be what I was given the opportunity to do, but I'm very thankful for the platform that I have been given.

But my background is I have, um, a degree in nursing and I was a pediatric nurse for almost a decade. And so I got kind of both sides of the coin, so to speak. And I got to kind of see, what it was like, the highly medicalized side.

[00:03:00] And then obviously my journey with just natural health and wellness and just a more holistic view versus like the very highly westernized view.

That's been a journey for me. And so I've gotten to experience that as well, personally. And so. I actually left the hospital in 2020 and came home to be with my kids and we were actually pregnant at that time and ended up having surprise twins. So that's a whole nother story in and of itself. And so it was just, the timing was.

It's perfect, and I'm very thankful to have the opportunity to be home, um, with my five kids now. We actually are expecting our sixths, and yeah, so that's a little bit kind of about my background, but what I do online is just share the things I'm passionate about, which are natural health, encouraging parents to really question the status quo of what our society says is normal and what our society Says you have to do and just really trusting your intuition and your

[00:04:00] God given, you know, the Lord gives us our, our motherly instinct for a reason.

So to really just kind of push a little bit against the norms. And so I share a lot about like natural remedies. I share a lot about motherhood and my faith and homeschooling. And we also just moved to the east side of the country from Texas. To start our homestead. And so we have about 70 acres and we have gotten cows and we we're doing our chickens.

And so that's kind of a new and exciting thing as well that we're learning about. Um, and we also have a small shop where we sell a lot of natural products like elderberry kits and, um, a lot of natural beauty products, cosmetics. And, um, it's just really, really fun to do what I get to do. I would've never imagined it, so I'm very grateful.

[00:04:50] Loren: Oh, well, thank you for sharing. And yeah, I feel like most of us end up doing something that we didn't expect to do, especially in the wellness space, uh, just by kind of God's design in a way. Yeah. But, um, yeah, I so appreciate what you're doing and what you're sharing and sort of, you know, the empowerment that you bring to parents.

I think it's a really needed voice and, uh, I'm very appreciative, especially as a parent to me myself, so. 

[00:05:18] Elizabeth: Yeah, thank you. I think it's something you don't really hear about people who have a, you know, we're trained in the medical world. They don't typically have the viewpoints that that I share. And so I think that's probably what's a little bit different.

And maybe, you know, part of what has been able to grow my platform, but I'm just Thankful for it. So absolutely. 

[00:05:38] Loren: And it's a really valuable perspective that you can bring because you know, the, the other side inside and out, and now you're, you know, you, you've found your balance. And I think that's really valuable to share with others.

And I think it'll be really valuable for the primary focus of this conversation, which is infant interventions. You know, as a pediatric nurse, I think this is going to be an incredible conversation. And I get asked questions about this. all the time. I'm sure you do too. So before we dive in, I would love it if you could share with the audience or describe for the audience what exactly infant interventions are, because from a clinical standpoint and from a practitioner standpoint, I know what I'm referring to when I say infant interventions or when I think of infant interventions, but for those who aren't familiar with the term, would you mind kind of describing or defining it?

[00:06:32] Elizabeth: Yeah, sure. So and honestly, it's exactly what it sounds like. When I think of an intervention, it's the process of changing something, taking an action to change something, not leaving it the way it is. And so infant interventions would be anything that's done, uh, specifically we're going to be talking about immediately after birth to an infant.

And I think when we're broaching this topic, we have to remember the United States and the infant and maternal mortality rates that we have in the U. S. compared to any other high income country, we are not doing great. Um, Our, our infant and maternal mortality rates. I looked at the statistic and I think it's like over three times the rate compared to other, you know, high income countries.

And we have like about 24 maternal deaths per 100, 000 live births. So that's not great for our moms. Right. But then when you look at infants, it's, it's not great either. 5. 4 deaths per 1000 live births. So we are not doing well as a country and we have, you know, we have to think about that. Like, why is that?

And yes, we have, we have babies that are born early. We have high risk moms, but like, Other countries deal with that as well. And so again, questioning the status quo, asking yourself, okay, why are we doing the things the way that we're doing them? And that's not a simple answer.

[00:08:00] It's not going to be wrapped up in a bow and a pretty bow.

But I think that, you know, It does beg the question of, like, pushing back a little bit and, and kind of examining what it is that we're doing. 

[00:08:11] Loren: Absolutely. And thanks for breaking that down for us. I think, you know, even though we may not know the exact answer or, you know, when I reflect on this, it's, it's many things that could be the cause and compounded.

But if you're not questioning that, I mean, it makes you think three times, you know, that's, that's a lot. There's something to be looked at there. Whether we know the answer right away or whether we can implement it, you know, a solution right away. That's also to be TBA, but I think it's definitely worth thinking about.

Makes you think. Thanks for sharing that. So I guess now that we kind of know. It is intervening as opposed to not. It's pretty simple. Yeah. Yeah. And I like that simplicity.

[00:09:00] But, uh, what are some of the common infant interventions, you know, I think maybe a good place to start would be cord clamping, potentially.

You know, I think many women think this is a really normal process, like as soon as the baby's born, cut the cord.

I love it if you could share more about this. 

[00:09:22] Elizabeth: Yeah, it absolutely is an intervention cord clamping. So like you said, it's either the clamping of or the cutting of the physical cutting of the umbilical cord. And honestly, there's. there's really no pros to immediate cord clamping or cutting like outside obviously of like an emergency situation or something outside of the norm.

I think it just probably became part of our norm as you know the fast paced birth mentality after the baby comes out. There's just this rush and there's buzz and there's lights and there's tons of people around. And it's just like, it's just part of that, like onto the next thing, onto the next thing.

[00:10:00] And so, you know, it's all very rushed. It's all very medicalized. And of course we have to cut the cord at some point, right. So to separate the placenta and the infant and. But there's a better option and that option is delayed cord clamping. And I think that this is something that is becoming more normalized even in the hospital setting, which is great because it does have a lot of benefits if you let that cord rest once the baby is born.

leave it, like leave the cord. There's no reason to cut it right away. Let it rest until it stops pulsing until it turns white, which means all of that blood has drained back into the baby. And it has, like I said, a lot of benefits. The baby, it allows up to a third increase in volume of blood and stem cells to be pumped back into baby's body.

And that increases their hemoglobin levels at birth. It improves their iron stores. It's associated with, um, a lot of benefits in preterm infants as well.

[00:11:00] Better circulation, better establishment of red blood cell volume, decreased need for blood transfusion. So it's like, it's one of those things that it's a no brainer for me, like, why wouldn't you?

you know, and so there, there's really no pros to cutting it right away. And there's a lot of benefits to waiting, even in a C section, they can do delayed cord clamping. 

[00:11:18] Loren: Yeah, that, those are amazing benefits. And, you know, you see the movies and it's just like, baby's here. Let's cut the cord. And that's kind of what we've been conditioned to think about.

But yeah, um, there is this other alternative that can provide a lot of benefits, you know, granted the situation is non emergency and not requiring cutting or clamping, but you know, I think things like jaundice, for example. can be reduced and, uh, the need for the risk of bleeding if the baby were to get nicked is decreased because it's just fortified with all that extra blood from the cord.

So, yeah, it's just something to consider. So if you are currently evaluating your options, uh, or putting together your birth plan, this could be something that you put on that birth plan. 

[00:12:03] Elizabeth: Yeah, and that's why I actually have a like a natural birth plan that I created for moms specifically planning on birthing in hospitals because I have a passion for that.

Not birthing in the hospital, but I have a passion for moms and I have a heart for moms that are birthing in hospitals because I did it three times. And my last birth was a home birth, and it was so different. And so I just wanted to create something that would empower them and that would have those options on there that aren't on other birth plans.

Like, things like delayed cord clamping and declining things, and we'll talk about all the other things, but that was a huge reason why I did it, is because I want them to have that communication tool. So it's very important to know your rights and to know your whys. 

[00:12:49] Loren: That's amazing. I'll have to link to that in the show notes for sure.

That sounds like an incredible resource. Okay, so the next one maybe we can talk about are antibiotic eye drops that are given to your baby right away as well. Would you be able to talk us through some of the pros and cons of this and some alternatives as well? Yeah. 

[00:13:09] Elizabeth: So the eye drops that they give to babies are actually, like you said, an antibiotic.

It's erythromycin and they do it as a blanket standard of care to every newborn that is born in the U. S. and it is actually given, it would be very easy to screen the babies that need this because the mom would have an STD, um, specifically chlamydia organorrhea and that bacteria can transfer into the baby's eyes during delivery.

But if you are a mom and you don't have chlamydia or gonorrhea, there's no reason for your baby to be getting this ointment. Another reason that I don't think people think about is the baby comes out and we slap this eye goop because it is, it's like an ointment, basically. It's not really, they're not really drops.

They're, it's an ointment. And it kind of hinders their vision a little bit, which can, you know, it could delay bonding, it could [00:14:00] delay them being able to latch well. So those are things that we have to think about as well. But for me, it's a very easy one to decline because I know whether or not I have those things.

Um, now if you do, then that's something that. you know, consider the benefit versus the risk. But, you know, it's, it shouldn't be a blanket standard of care like it is. Yeah. 

[00:14:19] Loren: Thank you for that valuable information. I think if you have done, depending on, you know, what you have agreed to during your pregnancy to STD testing is typically a very common part of the blood panels that you'll get drawn in the first trimester too.

So granted, like, you know who your partner is and it's a, it's a, an exclusive relationship. There you probably already know that you need it or not. Yeah. So thanks for breaking that down. And I do think the the bonding aspect and the possible impairment of the baby being able to look up at you and see you and you know latch is really important.

So that's another thing to think about especially if you're you're putting together that birth plan. So another area I'd love to cover I guess when babies come out, they have this sort of stuff on them and I know what these are called, but I'm just trying to kind of phrase this question for the audience.

You know, one of the first things that they do is wipe the baby down almost really like, um, really aggressively too sometimes. Yeah. And so, you know, I'm, I'm wondering if this is, what your thoughts are about this, you know, wiping of the baby. You know, I think the thought is like, the baby needs to be clean.

And so this is a very common practice as well. And I'm wondering if you could share your, your thoughts on this too.

[00:15:38] Elizabeth: Yeah. And you mentioned the aggressive wiping down of the baby. And I think part of that is to wipe them off. But I think another aspect of that is. Again, the rushed mindset of the medicalized birth world where we want baby to cry right away, right away.

If baby's not crying, that's a bad thing.

[00:16:00] Baby needs to cry right, right that second, right as it comes out. And yes, like we want the baby to cry, but this like jostling and like, you know, it's very aggressive the way that it can be done sometimes. And so that's, that's another thing. It's like, just let the baby be born, you know, like they don't even give it a chance.

to like figure out what just happened, but the substance that is coating the baby when they come out is called vernix. And it's, it's like a cheesy white, very thick coating on the baby's skin. And that develops in utero and it is a protective layer for the baby so that it basically doesn't get like pickled right in the amniotic fluid.

And so they develop that when they're in utero and as they near full term. It usually decreases. It usually sloughs off into the amniotic fluid and they actually swallow it. And then that also has a lot of gut benefits for them. So it's all just like brilliantly designed. If you have a baby that comes a little bit on the early side, they may have more.

 [00:17:00] If you have a baby that comes late, they may have less. And it's all a variation of normal, but there is a benefit to that vernix. And, you know, like I said, in utero, it, it serves as like a protection around the baby's skin. And it's very, it's very moisturizing. And so to just rub it in. is is great. Um, if you choose to do that, I definitely delay my baby's baths.

When we were in the hospital, we would not do the baths right away. We would wait until we were home much later to do those and just rub that rub that burnix and there's a lot of benefits to it. It helps them regulate their temperature. It's got a lot of anti infective properties, very moisturizing, like I said, and it's very cleansing to the skin.

So, it's just one of those things that, you know, God created to be there, and I say, use it to its advantage. 

[00:17:53] Loren: Yeah. Absolutely. Thanks for sharing that. I think that, you know, there's this idea that baby comes out uncleanly. It comes out dirty. And yeah, the opposite is true. That Burnex is really protecting them.

And if you are really worried about getting baby sick, for example, there could be so many benefits to keeping that Burnex on for a little longer. Uh, because. It's also protective of their immune system. Yeah. Absolutely. Thank you for sharing that and I think, again, another thing to think about for the birth plan.

So this is a big topic and I'm sure many of the audience members have been waiting for this question. So the hep B vaccine and the vitamin K shot. Can you explain why we give these, what the pros and cons are, and if there are any alternatives? 

[00:18:44] Elizabeth: So one thing I wanted to say that is in relation to all of these topics is a lot of things that happen after the baby is born kind of happen to you if you allow them to.

It's things that will just kind of roll right into the next, right into the next. It's the intervention snowball, as I call it. And it's not that the hospital or medical westernized birth that they're like inherently trying to be evil, like not at all. This is just what they're trained to do, and it's how they're trained to do it.

But. It will just happen if you let it, like, if you don't say otherwise, they're just going to do what they're trained to do. Okay. So that's where my passion comes from. And like, knowing what these things are so that you can say beforehand, you can sign a declination form. Like, no, I don't want that done.

No, I don't want that done. So that there can be a, an order about it because otherwise. You will just kind of like be a victim of your own naivety, I guess, that these things just kind of happened. So that's very important, especially when it comes to the topic of vaccinations. It is a highly polarizing topic, obviously.

So the two that you will need to know about right away are hep B and vitamin K, like you said. Hep B is a very easy one for me.

[00:20:00] Hepatitis B is a sexually transmitted disease. It's transmitted through bodily fluids, or blood, or needle sharing. And I, I don't know about you, but I don't plan for my newborn to be needle sharing at 24 hours old.

Uh, there's really, there's no reason why this should be a standard care protocol for every infant in the United States. Um, sure, if the mom is a, a drug user, or there's a hepatitis B history, or the outliers, right? But otherwise. Why are we giving this to babies at this age? It makes absolutely no sense. So that one is like one that I don't even really give the time of day to talk about other than just saying like, it's an STD.

Think about that. You know, like, no. So that one's very easy for me. Vitamin K is a little bit more nuanced. It's one that people don't really think of, I think, even as a vaccination. They think of it as, like a vitamin, I guess. They just think it's like a vitamin in a syringe, which it's not. It's not the same as vaccinations in, in that it's attempting to prevent something, a disease, but it is not just a vitamin in a syringe.

So, you know, first we have to think about, okay, why do babies need vitamin K supplementation? And I'm going to get a little bit sciency, so just hang on with me. But I think it's important to understand. the why behind why this has come to be a normal practice. So why are babies thought at least to need vitamin K supplementation?

So when babies are born, there is a very small amount of vitamin K that is transferred through the placenta. Breast milk contains a very small amount of vitamin K and the gut flora of a newborn is not developed very well and it's It's unable to really synthesize vitamin K well until later on, but all of those things being said, we have to ask why, like why are babies born that way?

Why are babies born with less vitamin K?

[00:22:00] Um, maybe it's for a reason and you know, vitamin K is produced, like I said. Their gut flora is not super mature yet. Vitamin K is produced by intestinal bacteria, okay? And so a newborn's intestinal gut flora, it's not going to be developed enough to produce enough vitamin K that medical people want to see.

And so the shot came to be, um, as just kind of, again, a blanket standard of care to every newborn to prevent hemorrhagic disease of the newborn, or shortened as called HDN. which sounds very, very scary, and no parent, of course, ever wants their baby to get that. And so what that is, though, is it's a very rare bleeding disorder where baby hemorrhages, they don't have enough vitamin K produced to stop the hemorrhaging, and it's very serious.

And if it does happen, yes, it can be fatal. So there's that, you know, you have to understand the why. And you have to understand both sides of, okay, medical people are coming at it and seeing it from this angle.

[00:23:00] Like, why wouldn't we do this? Because it saves babies lives. Absolutely. But also, you know, look at the other side.

There's two sides to every story. And there's also risk factors that are increased for a baby if a mom has done certain things. that increase the risk for HDN, those things not limited to, but just a few are mom being on specific medications, anti seizure medications, blood thinners, um, if mom took antibiotics during pregnancy, if there was a traumatic birth, um, like forceps or vacuum.

So all of those things can increase the risk for HDN. So it's, like I said, a very nuanced topic and something that you're going to want to speak with your provider about and be on the same page about. But, like I said previously, vitamin K is not just vitamin in a syringe. Actually, the, the vitamin K injection comes with a black box warning that has some serious reactions linked to it.

[00:24:00] For one, it's, it's 20, 000 times, unless this has changed since I researched it last, it's 20, 000 times more than necessary of a dose for a newborn. And the insert, if you, you know, those cute little sheets, well, your baby's still in utero, so you haven't gotten these at the doctor, but at the pediatrician, they give you these cute little vaccination information sheets.

Those are not the inserts. The inserts are what comes inside of the actual box, and it's like three times that information, that amount of information, and the one for vitamin K actually states that a reaction to it is death. And we just have to look at it from a level headed, both sides of the argument way.

We can't, we can't be like, you know, 100 percent this way or 100 percent this way because everybody's situation is going to be different. But I think it's important for people to know that this is not just a vitamin. Like, it's not like you're just taking a vitamin orally and your body absorbs it and then whatever.

Like, this is getting injected. directly into your baby's bloodstream. So I want to know what's in that.

[00:25:00] And I want to know what the risk factors are. So I don't know if that confused people more than it helped, but it's just, it's a topic that definitely deserves some research, as much research as you're doing about car seats and cribs and your registry.

Like Research vaccinations. 

[00:25:22] Loren: Hey, it's Loren. Learning how to advocate for yourself is an incredibly valuable skill to have, not only through your fertility and pregnancy journeys, but once your baby's actually here, because you'll be able to advocate for them too. The truth is that no one cares more about your health than you do, and no one is going to care about your baby's health more than you.

But regardless of whether you're making the decisions or not, you're the one that has to live with the consequences no matter what. I think advocating for yourself is so important that I teach self advocacy to all of my students, and they have been able to make leaps and bounds in their fertility and pregnancy journeys because of it.

Learn more about self advocacy in my e course, Conscious Conception. at innatefertility. org slash get dash pregnant. And if you're loving the show, don't forget to leave a review. Now back to the episode.

[00:26:16] Absolutely. I think you bring up a very great point. And that is just like you said, just as much as you're researching the flame retardant free car seats and flame retardant free mattresses.

This is also important and is worth the time and effort. you know, regardless of the nuances and the information, the scientific information that you shared. I think the one thing, if anyone is listening, that you can take away is that it's not just a vitamin in a syringe. It's more than that. Yeah. So knowing that, you know, it's important to evaluate that for yourself and for your family.

[00:26:51] Elizabeth: Yeah. And there, there are other alternatives. With our home birth, I had the oral drops available in case we needed them, and I think my initial plan was just to administer them regardless, but then the birth was, was fine, and, and I was comfortable not giving them at all. So, but it's nice to have them on hand, so there it's, I'm trying to think of the brand, I should have looked it up before. There's a specific brand that does the oral vitamin K drops and there's like, you know, specific dosing that you can talk to your provider about that, that you actually give to your baby over the first few weeks of their life. So there's alternatives. 

[00:27:29] Loren: Absolutely, yeah. Um, those K drops are definitely something you can look into if, you know, you decide you don't want to do this shot, but you want to have something as a backup.

Yeah. So thank you so much for sharing that. That is one of the biggest questions I get all the time. 

[00:27:47] Elizabeth: Understandably so. Understandably so, because you don't hear much from... Um, so I think it's important to hear both sides. Absolutely. 

[00:28:01] Loren: And I appreciate the balanced perspective. So another question I have is about additional blood tests, which you can get.

at different points, but typically right away when baby comes out, it's, it's a test for PKU, congenital hypothyroidism, and galactosemia. So I guess if you're in the hospital too, typically the baby will be whisked away for these. So I would love to know, you know, what your thoughts and perspectives are on the pros and cons.

Are these all necessary? Yeah. Can you break it down for us too? Yeah. 

[00:28:34] Elizabeth: So I think you're, are you referring to like the heel prick that they do that they take baby and do the heel prick? So there are a lot of, I think it's nine hereditary diseases that it tests for. And there are things that the reasoning behind it is early intervention.

can help outcomes, which I understand. And so this is kind of one that It's not something that they're injecting into my baby. You know, they're, they're taking a lab. It's a heel prick, obviously. So the baby's not going to like that. My issue comes more so from what do they do with that blood after they've taken it?

There's, if you, if you do a little bit of research, there's. there's some controversy there about like, well, should we be storing these blood cards? Because then they could use them down the road for different things. Um, and they, they can use them for testing for scientific testing. And, um, even like if they need DNA samples and stuff like that.

And some, some parents aren't even aware that this is being done. So that would be something I would definitely look into and decide. if you're comfortable with that. I don't have an issue so much as of like testing for the diseases because I think that that's, it's good to know. You know, it's, I want to know if my kid has cystic fibrosis and I think that it's great that we can screen for that now.

That was a huge population that I worked with when I was a pediatric nurse was with cystic fibrosis patients and um, early diagnosis can make a difference.

[00:30:00] So I see the benefit in it. I also see the reasons for why parents opt out of it because They just, you know, they would just rather not put their baby through the heel prick.

It can be stressful if you're having to bring your baby back in. I know sometimes they don't do it in the hospital. Sometimes you have to bring them back in at like day three or five or something. So that, you know, for a new mom, a first time mom or a mom that has kids at home to have to like bring their newborn back into the hospital, that's pretty stressful.

So I see both sides of it. I see, I see the benefits of it, but I also see the hesitation behind it.

[00:30:36] Loren: Yeah, it's something to think about, and I think you bring up definitely aspects of this sort of testing that aren't really thought about, uh, so definitely, again, things to evaluate for your family. Last but not least, so this is another one that our audience is probably been waiting for, and it can be very polarizing as well.

[00:31:00] For the audience members that are open to hearing different opinions on, you know, this topic, and, you know, everything that we're talking about here, too, it's not the end all be all, we're just presenting information, I may not completely agree with Elizabeth's perspective. Elizabeth may not completely agree with my perspective, but we're just having a conversation and talking about different topics that, you know, are relevant to you if you're thinking about having a child or if you are considering, you know, your birth plan.

Um, so just take that for what it's worth and, you know, I just encourage you to be open to hearing. And because if you can hear the more knowledge you can sort of compile and the better decision you can make for yourself. So with that said, what about circumcision? 

[00:31:47] Elizabeth: I feel like you had to give more of a disclaimer on that than the vaccine vaccinations.

No, but seriously, it is one that I have not covered publicly, like in depth. I've maybe like broached it in stories. Every now and then, or like, when I do a Q& A, I'll maybe put a resource or something. But it is not one I have intentionally done a post for, and there are reasons for that, because I have seen friends that have done it, and it is insane.

It is very polarizing. There are crazy people on one side, and there are crazy people on the other side, and I'm like, can we just meet in the middle and like, talk about this with a level head? But for whatever reason, circumcision is one of those that people cannot, um, at least what, with what I've seen.

So I have three boys. Um, and so this is something that I have had to, to think about and to have my own journey with. And that's not something like I talk about publicly, obviously, because that's very private. And I think that that's the bottom line is that this is a very, very. personal decision for a parent to have to make.

And it is something that I feel like you shouldn't just do it because that's what everybody else does.

[00:33:00] And that is the issue that I have with it is that, especially in the United States circumcision, is very, very common. Uh, you know, more people are circumcised than not. I have no idea what the statistic is.

I don't even have to look at it. It is way more common to be circumcised than not in the United States, but in other countries, that's not actually the case. And so if you are having a boy, just research, like, I would love for you to just not do it just because they come and they say, okay, are you going to circumcise?

We're going to take him now. Don't get to that point. Like you need to do your research and you need to know if you're going to do it. You need to know why, what your reasons are, and if you're not going to do it, same, because you're going to need to, to back that up. And so I am just all about informed consent.

That is something that we are sorely lacking in our medical system, especially when it comes to pregnancy and birth. There's, I see reasons for both. I, I see why people do it. I see why people don't do it.

[00:34:00] There are great resources to look into. The one that I recommend the most that I feel like is, I wouldn't say it's unbiased because it's not, but I feel like it's not like super pushy.

It's just more like the heart behind it is education. And that's your whole baby. org, your whole baby. org. And, um, it just kind of breaks down the stereotypes of what uncircumcised looks like and the care for it. And, you know, we, it's like this elephant in the room that we don't want to talk about. It's really not hard to care for an uncircumcised penis, but we just, for whatever reason, we don't do the research on it.

And we're just kind of like, that's just what everybody else does. And I'm like, okay, but they're actually cutting. Like, have you seen it done? That's another question. If you're going to do that, if you're going to choose to have your baby circumcised, I think that you should have to watch one being done.

Before you do it, because I think that that's, that's a thing, you know, like, I know in nursing school,

[00:35:00] I had to help hold babies down for circumcisions and, you know, it's done outside of the room. So mom doesn't have to see it. And I think that I think that there's something weird about that. So I think that research, research, research, watch on being done and then decide. And that's all.

[00:35:19] Loren: That's all quotation marks. Yes. That's all I'll say. Oh, I think that's really valuable information. And there's just a couple of things I want to mention to you from my perspective. So I think when it comes to circumcision too, if you are considering it, you may not be given a choice.

Or you may receive more pressure to receive, uh, to give your baby something like a vitamin K shot, too. So, just, um, be aware of that. Absolutely. Yeah, because, uh, you know, it's aesthetic, but it's a surgical procedure. And the, the fear around the whole reason to give vitamin K is to prevent... hemorrhagic bleeding.

And, um, you know, if you are performing surgery on an infant right away, then you're probably going to receive pressure to get that shot.

[00:36:02] Elizabeth: Oh yeah, for sure. And I don't recommend people decline vitamin K if they do plan on circumcising, like right away. If it's an option that you can wait until day eight, you can get a trained, I think it's a mohel, I'm going to look it up and I'll, I'll correct myself, but like to come to your house or whatever they, they come and they do that.

And it's more, um, in line with like the tradition of circumcision, like we cut off way more than they did in Bible times, much more of the foreskin is cut off in the hospital. And it's obviously just more like medicalized and bright lights shining on your baby and they're being strapped down. Like, you know, so there's, there's gentler ways, I guess would be what I'm trying to say.

If that's something that you choose to do, or I know a lot of times the husband is very insistent on it because they are, and they don't want to look different than their son or, you know, there's, there's lots of different it's there's religious reasons. Like there is just so much that goes into it. So I try to be sensitive of everybody's backgrounds.

[00:37:01] Loren: Right. Yeah, I think you've touched on the points that I was gonna touch on. You know, there are ways that you can go about this that are more rooted in more of the ancestral practices that typically practice circumcision. I know of families that, that are not Jewish, but that have had that done. I thought it was the rabbi.

[00:37:19] Elizabeth: It is. So I think it's a rabbi, but they're The Mohels, I just looked it up. It is a Mohel. They are, I might be saying it wrong, but it's M O H E L. They are specifically trained in the act of like ancient circumcision.

[00:37:33] Loren: So it's very, actually, you know, circumcision is like a very celebratory thing in Jewish culture

[00:37:37] Elizabeth: And it's, and it's something, you know, when you're coming from like a religious background or whatever. Like, you know, I'm a, I'm a Christian. I'm not Jewish, but like Christ instituted circumcision. So, you know, there's something there and yes, we don't live under the old law anymore as believers, but we can't just like be like, Oh no, that's the worst thing that you could ever do.

Like Christ instituted it, you know, there, but there was reasons for that. And so I just think it's something that. We have to like have an open mind and be able to do the research ourself and decide what's important to us. But yeah, a mohel would be able to actually come to your house and it's very calm and like much different than the hospital.

[00:38:17] Loren: Yeah, I grew up with many Jewish friends. And so this was just part of, even though I was raised Catholic, um, this is part of my regular life. Uh, just. you know, being invited to all the Jewish ceremonies. And I know that brusses were just like, really, really something to celebrate as well. But yeah, you can consider that.

I think the religious aspect is also a consideration too. You know, if you are religious, then you know what we're saying as far as like, you know, researching the reasons not to do it, maybe it's just like a no brainer for you. And that's definitely something you want to do. So because it's part of so ingrained in your faith, whether it's the Jewish faith or Muslim faith, Another thing too, though, is I've also had, had acquaintances and people in my [00:39:00] life that have gotten their babies circumcised at the hospital that have had to do revisions in the future.

So, and that hasn't been uncommon in terms of, like, the people in my life that have gotten their babies circumcised. So. That's something to think about too, and I think that's less common if you do go with someone like a MOHEL. So I just wanted to bring that up because, um, just because you do get, or if you do opt into a circumcision, that's not one and done necessarily.

You know, there could be a risk of having to do a revision in the future.

[00:39:29] Elizabeth: Oh yeah, absolutely. There's always risk when there's intervention. There is no intervention, there is no risk free intervention, um, and botched circumcisions are definitely something that happen. So something to think about. So much 

[00:39:45] Loren: to think about, but hopefully, you know, this helps give you some resources to look into.

I think knowyourwholebaby. org and just knowing that there's an option other than the hospital to consider to is, is really great. So thank you for that, Elizabeth. [00:40:00] Okay. Awesome. I want to segue into this question. You know, I think it's really important to discuss. this aspect of infant interventions because some birth settings might lend themselves better to having more of these infant interventions than being able to opt out of them.

Like you mentioned, you know, earlier in a hospital setting, the, the staff is just going to be trained to follow a procedure. Um, so you have to kind of be prepared. And so I'm wondering if you can share if there are specific birth settings where it might be harder or easier to opt out of certain ones.

[00:40:35] Elizabeth: Yeah, I think the, the most important thing when you become pregnant is to find a provider that you are comfortable with who supports the decisions that you want to make for your baby that recognizes that pregnancy is not a disease to be intervened upon and that sees that, you know, your baby is yours and finding a supportive provider is So, so important in my experience, I have had three hospital births and one home birth and that was twins and this baby will be born Lord willing at home is the plan.

And I would say if you are in the mindset of less interventions. is better. And that is the goal for your birth for your pregnancy and labor and birth. I would say it's significantly easier to do that in a birth center, um, with a midwife or a home birth with a midwife. I know that home birth is scary to a lot of people, but if you actually do the research, um, home birth is just as safe, if not safer than hospital birth.

And birth centers are also a great kind of like middleman option for that if, um, you're not comfortable with a home birth, birth centers are set up like a home, you know, it feels very calm and there's no bright lights and usually there's a tub and you can birth in the water if you want. And birth centers are a great option.

Um, but I would definitely say going the midwife, uh, the midwifery route, um, is going to lend itself to more patient autonomy and being able to make those decisions alongside your provider. Obviously, you know, thank the Lord for medical interventions when we need them, right? And I'm not anti medical. I am not, you know, like anti hospital.

Um, I just have seen it done both ways. myself, and I've seen it done in the hospital. I, you know, we did labor and delivery in nursing school and I got to see a lot of births in the hospital. And for me and my preferences in birth personally, I just feel so much more comfortable and so much more cared for in a holistic way and not kind of like you feel like in the hospital, you, you really, really feel like you're fighting.

Every step of the way. And that is what I felt like, even when I had midwives in the hospital and I fought, I fought so hard for a birth center for my third

[00:43:00] baby and insurance wouldn't cover it. And we just weren't in a financial place where we could, you know, swing a birth center or a home birth. And so I had to do it in the hospital.

And I just, I remember feeling like I'm never doing this again. Like, I feel like I have to fight every step of the way, every part of my pregnancy, every phase of. Um, labor, every phase of delivery, my midwife was like wanting to break my water, uh, before I was even in transition and you just have to fight, you know, and, and that shouldn't be, you shouldn't be on the defense.

Um, a laboring mom should not be on the defense. I think that a birth center or a home birth just lends itself to more patient autonomy and more trust in the woman's innate design, brilliant design. Women were designed. to do this. Like our bodies are incredible. And more often than not, when it comes to birth, labor, pregnancy, if we are just left alone, it usually turns out just fine.

[00:44:00] And I know, I know there's always people who are like, but this, you know, and there's. Of course, there's always extenuating circumstances, but I think for the most part that that, um, that rings true. 

[00:44:10] Loren: Yeah. And I think those are valuable insights, especially coming from both a clinical setting, but also your personal experience and having lived both sides of the coin and given birth on both sides.

But like you said too, it's really about making the right decision for you and I think that, you know, this is information and you have to figure out what you can do, what's in your means as well. Maybe a hospital birth is the only way and only option that insurance will pay for your birth. And so, okay, if you know you want to opt out of some of the interventions, then you might have to prepare a little more for advocating for yourself in that setting.

Yeah, um, but. It doesn't mean you can't get what you want, you just might have to push a little harder. And so how can you prepare your team? Is there a team that you can build that can help take that weight off so you can focus on laboring like you want to? Um, so, you know. There are things that can all be shifted, and I really want to link to that hospital birth plan for those mamas that might be in that situation

[00:45:12] Elizabeth: Yeah, I can send it to you.

[00:45:15] Loren: Awesome. Okay, well, I've loved our conversation, Elizabeth. Thank you so much for taking the time to share your wisdom and knowledge. Um, one last question. What is one thing that you would like to share with the audience, if anything? That they can start doing today to unlock the innate wisdom of their bodies.

[00:45:32] Elizabeth: Yeah, I think just to not silence it, uh, I think our culture is very uncomfortable with being uncomfortable. And so I think in order to kind of get more in tune with your body and the way it was created is, is we have to stop silencing the symptoms that our body is. is giving us. And that can be, that can be applied to literally any category of life, disease or pregnancy or, you know, just like the simple symptoms that we feel from day to day.

You know, if we're eating a certain food and it's giving us a stomach ache every time, you know, don't just pop a Tums and forget about it or whatever it is, you know, that pepto bismol or like our bodies are brilliantly designed. And if we just keep smashing that engine light. So to speak, we're not doing our bodies a service.

So I think just by listening to our bodies, slowing down enough to listen is, is would be my advice. 

[00:46:28] Loren: I couldn't agree more. That is beautiful advice. That's something you could start doing today. So, you know, just taking that step, that pause after your meal, did your food sit well with you? Are, are you actually hungry right now?

Instead of just powering through some emails. That could be the easiest way to implement what Elizabeth is saying. So thank you for that, Elizabeth. And last but not least, where can people find you and support you? Oh, 

[00:46:54] Elizabeth: thank you. I'm mainly on Instagram at purely Parsons, all one word And I do stories over there.

I have a ton of highlights that are saved from over the years of natural remedies and different things. There's highlights on almost everything you could imagine. Um, and then I also have a website, purely parsons. com where I, there's a couple of pages on there that have things that I can't really talk about on Instagram very well.

Um, I have a whole tab on vaccines, if that's something that you're wanting to kind of start that research. Um, and then our small shop is also over there as well. So. 

[00:47:30] Loren: Awesome. Thank you so much. I have been meaning to order myself some of your elderberry. So I think with the seasons changing, I'm totally going to do that.

And, uh, I can't wait to see that you said you're expanding your shop too. So I can't wait to see what goodies you put in there. Yeah. 

[00:47:46] Elizabeth: I'm so excited. We have like seven or eight. It's ridiculous. There's like eight, I think new products that we're coming out with in the next few weeks. So it's very busy over here, but we're very excited.

[00:47:56] Loren: That’s amazing. Well, I wish you well and that your shop expansion is extremely successful. Thank you. All right. Well, thank you so much, Elizabeth. It was wonderful chatting with you and we'll stay in touch. All right.

[00:48:08] Elizabeth: Sounds good. Thanks, Lauren. 

[00:48:10] Loren: Thank you so much for listening to the innate wisdom podcast.

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