Innate Wisdom Podcast

What It's About:

Join Loren Sofia, Functional Fertility Coach and owner of Innate Fertility, and Jared St. Clair, an herbalist, natural supplement formulator, podcast host of Vitality Radio, and owner of Vitality Nutrition in Bountiful, UT, as they discuss everything you need to know about the microbiome. In this episode, you’ll learn:

-What the microbiome is
-When it’s formed and if it can be changed
-How you can tell if your microbiome is balanced or not
-How your microbiome can impact your hormones and fertility
-How your microbiome can influence your immune system and autoimmunity
-The different types of bacteria that play a role in your microbiome
-Human strain probiotics versus spore-based probiotics
-How antibiotics work and what you can take as an alternative
-Solutions for chronic sinus and urinary tract infections
-How you can optimize your microbiome starting today
-How what you eat influences your microbiome

Transcript:

[00:00:00] Loren: Welcome to the Innate Wisdom Podcast. I'm your host, Lauren Safiya, Functional Fertility Coach and owner of Innate Fertility, and I'm honored to guide you through each episode where we'll cover not just fertility, but how to rediscover the innate wisdom of your body, restore your connection with your physiology, bioenergetics and metabolism, and get back in touch with Mother Nature and ancestral traditions.

[00:00:26] Loren: I'm so excited to be back for another season of the Innate Wisdom Podcast. It's been an amazing year, and a few personal updates I'd like to share. I'm pregnant and expecting a son or a daughter, yes it will be a surprise, we don't know, at the end of December or early January. If you've been wondering where I've been, I have been growing a human.

[00:00:46] Loren: I also birthed the completely revamped version of my pregnancy prep e course, Conscious Conception, that has helped hundreds of women make the intentional transition from maiden to mother, and is helping hundreds more do the same. There's so much [00:01:00] more too, but as you can see, it's been quite the year so far.

[00:01:04] Loren: That said, I'm overjoyed to kick off this season of the Newism Podcast with an episode all about the microbiome. I've invited my colleague Jared St. Clair onto the show, an herbalist, natural supplement formulator, podcast host, vitality radio, and owner of Vitality Nutrition in Bountiful, Utah. This is a really important discussion because your microbiome can influence so many aspects of your health, and it doesn't just involve your gut.

[00:01:29] Loren: When it comes to your fertility too, your vaginal microbiome can play a huge role in your cervical mucus production, which acts as a highway and incubator for sperm, and can also play a huge role in your ability to get pregnant and stay pregnant. And it's becoming more recognized that your baby's microbiome isn't necessarily sterile in the womb, as we once thought, and your microbiome before and during pregnancy can influence theirs.

[00:01:56] Loren: In this episode, Jared and I are going to unravel the mysteries of the [00:02:00] microbiome and teach you how you can support yours starting today. This is just the first of many amazing conversations I look forward to sharing with you in this new season of the Innate Wisdom Podcast. I hope you enjoy the episode.

[00:02:13] Loren: Alright everyone, I have Jared from Vitality Radio. Welcome Jared, I'm so excited to have you on the podcast. How are you doing today? 

[00:02:22] Jared: I'm doing great. It's been a while since we've seen each other quite a ways back on the Vitality Radio podcast, and I know we're scheduled to do another one very soon, so I will say that I'm excited to be on yours in large part because I had such great feedback from the episode you did with me, so this should be fun.

[00:02:38] Jared: Yeah, 

[00:02:38] Loren: it was a blast. And for those of you that are not familiar, Vitality Radio is an awesome radio show, and I had the pleasure of coming on to speak with Jared about, you know, Birth control and post birth control syndrome. So definitely go check that out. I'll link it in the show notes as well So you can do that easily.

[00:02:57] Loren: Yeah, I'm super excited to have you on Jared [00:03:00] and this episode we're talking about the microbiome So I hope everyone is Ready for that, you know in case you're like what is She talking about, we'll explain it. Don't worry. But before we do jump into today's topic, I would love to just for the audience, maybe expand upon your background and kind of how you got to where you are today and doing what you do today.

[00:03:24] Loren: If you wouldn't mind sharing Jared

[00:03:25] Jared: Yeah, happy to. I came up in this kind of natural health world in a very organic way, we'll say. My parents actually opened a health food store when I was five years old. That store is still in business. I own it now. I've owned it for almost 30 years now. And growing up as a kid in a health food store, I think you kind of have maybe one of two options.

[00:03:44] Jared: And I have a couple of brothers and a sister. So I've seen a little bit different. version of this for all of us in terms of how we grew up there, but either embrace it and just fall in love with it, which is exactly what happened for me. My brother that's just older than me [00:04:00] just wasn't that interested in it.

[00:04:01] Jared: And he went on, decided to do other things. And my other brother ended up opening up a store and my sister. Is interested in help, but didn't really grab onto it like I did either. So it's been interesting because we've all done it a little bit differently, but my parents had a rule. Any of the kids had to be 14 years old before we could interact with customers.

[00:04:21] Jared: Cause prior to that, I started working there when I was seven. dumping the trash and pricing products and that sort of thing. But when I was 14 and got to start actually talking to customers about the stuff that they were concerned about and helping them pick what type of vitamin C to buy and those types of things.

[00:04:38] Jared: And by the way, I'm 51 years old now. So we're talking about a long time ago when the health food stores had a lot less selection of the things that they have now. I just fell in love with hearing people's stories and hearing their dilemmas and learning enough to try to help them with those dilemmas.

[00:04:56] Jared: And as I got a little older and then [00:05:00] eventually bought the store when I was 22 years old and it became my livelihood as opposed to just a little job while I was going to school, then that passion really took root. And I just. Love doing this. So I always tell people my training is completely on the job training.

[00:05:16] Jared: I've certainly got a few certifications and things like that, but for the most part, I've learned what I've learned by helping people kind of figure out what they're dealing with when it comes to health. And probably the biggest part of my passion at this point is educating people on the things that I've learned, and I just love doing it.

[00:05:33] Loren: Yeah, well, your passion certainly shines through, and I think organic is a very great way to describe how you got here, and I love how curious you are about everything, and it's always awesome to meet somebody so passionate. So, thanks for what you do. Thank you. Well, thanks for sharing that, Jared. I would love to dive into today's topic, and I know that you're quite knowledgeable about [00:06:00] it, and that is the microbiome.

[00:06:02] Loren: So, can you break down what the microbiome is for those that might be scratching their heads? 

[00:06:09] Jared: Yeah, I think it's interesting, Lauren, that people certainly, especially people that are interested in the types of topics you talk about, type of topics I talk about, the microbiome is almost common language for that crowd to some degree, and then there are all kinds of people that have Barely ever heard the word before, but what I find with the microbiome is that it seems to be a bit of an overwhelming topic for a lot of people trying to understand what the heck it is and how it works and how we can influence it either positively or negatively does leave a lot of people with a lot of questions.

[00:06:42] Jared: I get as many questions about the microbiome as probably any other topic that I discuss because. It's confusing, I guess is probably the best way to put it. So I have done my best to try and simplify it to make it make sense for people without anybody feeling like they have to have a degree in microbiology to understand [00:07:00] it.

[00:07:00] Jared: But the microbiome is basically all of the living things that are on or in our body. that are essentially non human. And so bacteria, even things like parasites, mold and fungi, yeast, all types of different little organisms that are in or on the body. And I always mention in and on, because I think the first thing that most people think of with the microbiome is stuff that's happening in the gut.

[00:07:28] Jared: And certainly that's where a high percentage of our microbes hang out, but we have them on our skin as well. In fact, that's one of the reasons I was pretty horrified with all of the sanitizing that's been happening over the last few years, is I feel like we've been killing some of our very best defenders that are on our body in an attempt to try and keep ourselves healthy.

[00:07:47] Jared: So we have to think about the whole picture when we think about the microbiome, but that's basically what it is. And it's important to understand that it's not necessarily good. or bad, the microbiome. It has a whole [00:08:00] lot to do, much like, of course, hormones that you talk about a lot with the balance, because we will always have some guys in that microbiome that could potentially harm us if they get out of balance too much.

[00:08:11] Jared: A lot of people think of things like candida, for instance, with that, where it's okay to have some candida in the system. It's not So, okay, if we have a candida overgrowth in the system, and things like E. coli, we've all got E. coli, but we don't necessarily have E. coli infections if, you know, that stuff's kept in balance, and we have enough good defenders of the body on board that those things don't end up overgrowing and creating issues for us.

[00:08:37] Jared: So, the microbiome is, it's both, it's good and bad, potentially, and it's very much about keeping it in balance so that we can have optimal health. 

[00:08:46] Loren: I think that's a great succinct way to describe that. Thanks, Jared. And hopefully we'll definitely expand upon that for those still wondering. We'll help you follow the conversation.

[00:08:58] Loren: Don't worry. The microbiome [00:09:00] definitely is a very broad topic. It's very, very complex. It can be complex. Jared did a beautiful way of describing it. So thanks for that. And my next question for the audience too is, Are you born with your microbiome? How do you develop your microbiome? Is it something that you just come out of the womb with?

[00:09:23] Loren: Can it be changed? Those kinds of things. 

[00:09:26] Jared: Yeah, that's a great question and it's a really important question because one of the things that I ask people all the time at Vitality Nutrition when they're coming in asking about Whatever health concern they may have is tell me about your microbiome. And if they look at me with a blank stare, then I know I have to go a little bit deeper than that.

[00:09:44] Jared: And so then I'll ask them about their birth history and their antibiotic history. So I ask, okay, were you a C section baby or were you born vaginally? Were you breastfed? If so, for how long were you breastfed and what type of health did your mother have while she was breastfeeding you? [00:10:00] So those are all really, really important questions.

[00:10:02] Jared: And I'll go into that a little bit more in a second. And then the question is, okay, when were you first given an antibiotic? And I wish I could say that differently, but here in America anyway. try to find someone who hasn't been given an antibiotic. And one of the things that I learned about 12 years ago when I really started diving deeper into the microbiome than I ever had before.

[00:10:24] Jared: And the reason I did is because I was in the process of developing a product that is a probiotic formula. And I wanted to really understand that as inside and out as I possibly could. So I started researching it in a deeper way than I ever had before. And I came across some research that was really, really fascinating.

[00:10:42] Jared: And much of this was research that came out of what they call the human microbiome project that the National Institutes of Health had done over several years. And one of the things that we learned is that by the time you're about three and a half or four years old, your full adult human microbiome has been [00:11:00] developed.

[00:11:00] Jared: Now. Whether or not it is an optimal human microbiome is a different story, but it's kind of done at that point, unless we do things later in life to try to improve it. And the big factors in that, in terms of developing it, are, in my view, basically three. Did you get your mom's birth canal microbiome? In other words, were you not born as a C section?

[00:11:24] Jared: If you were born as a C section, which I was, unfortunately, then you start out in a significant hole, because when you're in the womb, you don't have a microbiome. When you go through that, you get this. bath of incredible bacteria from your mother, which is a huge part of what your microbiome will become.

[00:11:44] Jared: And then the question is, were you breastfed? Now, my mom, not when I was born, but a few years later, owned a health food store, clearly a little bit more natural minded than most people. And she told me many times. Had she known later in life what she knew earlier, you know, the story for [00:12:00] all of us, right, that I probably wouldn't have been a c section baby either.

[00:12:03] Jared: But she knew that I was a c section baby. She knew that that was a challenge and she breastfed most of the kids for around two to two and a half years to try and do as much makeup work as she could. And I was apparently quite an avid breastfeeder. So I got two and a half years of support through her breast milk, which is huge because it's not just the breast milk, but it's also that human touch the skin to skin touch, because remember the microbiome resides on the skin and on the body as well as inside the body.

[00:12:31] Jared: So I did get, I guess you could say some sort of summer school for the microbiome for a long time for mom to try and make up for what I didn't get from the birth canal, but I started out in a little bit of a hole. Then the other thing that I find really interesting is that if you've ever witnessed a child, if any of you listening, have children or grandchildren, you will always see that once they start crawling.

[00:12:53] Jared: And they can get access to whatever they can get access to. The first thing they do after they grab it in their hand is put it in their mouth. [00:13:00] And I believe that is a massive factor in how we build our microbiome. And I mentioned the sanitization thing. I don't love all that sanitization because there are so many good things in our environment that we are meant to coexist with and that I believe in most cases are more strengthening to our body than they are weakening to our body.

[00:13:19] Jared: So I know it's innate within every child to put dirty things in their mouth, and I'm kind of okay with that. 

[00:13:26] Loren: I think that's really, really important, even just living day to day as adults, too. The cleanliness that you have, and I think it's important to clarify that not All germs or microbes are bad.

[00:13:44] Loren: That's what I'm getting from you as well. They can definitely help us. Our ancestors were used to having dirt in their fingernails and things like that and they would eat with the dirt in their fingernails and that provided even more microbiome benefits. So [00:14:00] hygiene definitely has played a role in controlling certain diseases and things like that.

[00:14:04] Loren: That's not to say like sanitization is all bad, but we've gone from one extreme. For a very long time to a completely different extreme where everything is bad and you must have 0 percent bacteria on surfaces and your hands. It's kind of like, what is the exchange there? What are you really giving up? I like what you said earlier.

[00:14:26] Loren: It's all about balance, which I think is really what the microbiome goes back to because sure, there are certain bacteria that we naturally carry that can overgrow and it becomes a real problem, but we're meant to naturally carry those things too. So it's just about maintaining 

[00:14:45] Jared: balance. Right. Well, and all you have to do is look at, like, natural immunity.

[00:14:49] Jared: If someone gets the measles, which I did as a child, they don't ever get the measles again. And there's a reason for that. When we come into contact with something that could [00:15:00] potentially do harm to our body, in most cases, our body is capable of creating additional defenses against that thing so that when we come across it, It doesn't create that issue.

[00:15:11] Jared: And we saw a lot of that with COVID, the big debate over natural immunity versus vaccine immunity and all that stuff. And we don't have to get into that, but there was this huge debate for the first time, maybe ever when all of a sudden people were questioning. That natural immunity might not be that great or that long lasting, and yet it always has been before with just about every other thing that's come well with every other thing that's come across.

[00:15:34] Jared: And so we do have to recognize that our body is designed to live in the world and in the environment that we live in. And it is by design that we are able to build up tolerances and immunity to many of those things if we don't do things to mess that up. Right, 

[00:15:52] Loren: yeah, we didn't get here by living in bubble wrap, that's for sure.

[00:15:56] Loren: For sure. So there are two [00:16:00] things that I want to call out out of your three sort of criteria for determining microbiome status when talking to anyone about their gut health and just health in general. You mentioned first the way you're born, and I'd love to break that down a little more, and breastfeeding, and then just living in sort of a non sanitized way, giving the opportunities to put things in your mouth that aren't like 100 percent sterilized, that kind of thing.

[00:16:28] Loren: But especially because So much of the work that I focus on is around fertility. We probably have many audience members that are either trying to get pregnant or that are pregnant and considering many different types of birth options. I'd love it if you could maybe expand a little bit more on the way that you're born and breastfeeding as well, which might be an unexpected consideration.

[00:16:47] Loren: I feel like the microbiome itself is not really that much discussed when it comes to breastfeeding, but it actually plays a huge role in so many things. So if you could expand on those two things, I'd love to hear more about them. 

[00:16:59] Jared: [00:17:00] Well, when it comes to breastfeeding, we'll start there as you were saying that I was thinking it that yeah We don't think about that so much with breastfeeding.

[00:17:07] Jared: What we often think about is more nourishment nutrients vitamins minerals protein fats the things that essentially make up breast milk from a macro standpoint, but when we talk about the micro things, breast milk has those microbes in it as well. And so there's a big factor there that we don't take into consideration.

[00:17:26] Jared: If we just go quickly to cow's milk and we look at raw cow's milk versus pasteurized cow's milk, we know that many people who have say lactose intolerance can drink raw milk. and not drink pasteurized milk. And why is that? Well, we've taken what was a living food and turned it into essentially a dead food by killing all of the microbes.

[00:17:46] Jared: Yes, we're killing whatever bad bacteria might be in there, but we're also killing the enzymes and good bacteria that would help us to digest that thing. Well, of course, mom's milk is always raw or at least should always be raw. Certainly when it's coming out of the [00:18:00] breast, it is. So we have all of those enzymes.

[00:18:03] Jared: We have all of those living things that are in there that not only help to build the microbiome, but also help us digest all of the macro nutrients that are in that milk. And if we start to recognize that the mother's milk isn't just for nutrition, but is also for immune support and actually essentially giving our body the opportunity that it needs and the materials that it needs to defend ourselves, because where we just came from was completely sterile.

[00:18:33] Jared: And then all of a sudden we're rushed into a We'll say pretty dirty world, right? Lots of germs all over the place that we haven't really had to defend Ourselves against because mom was doing the defense work while we were in the womb So then when we come out we have to start defending ourselves and the way that we do that primarily because we know that 80 Ish of the immune response that our body is able to utilize when we have something that is [00:19:00] trying to infect us or harm us from a microbial standpoint anyway, comes from the gut and the microbiome and what's happening there.

[00:19:07] Jared: So we are immediately, if things go as planned, I guess you could say. We get the vaginal delivery, we get the breast milk as we were designed to do, then our body has this massive leg up on that natural immune defense. Mom's milk has loads of immunoglobulins in there and other things that help us to defend ourselves against these things.

[00:19:30] Jared: And so when you read about people that can't breastfeed for some reason, and they're looking for options and alternatives. Maybe they're looking at goat's milk or they're looking at raw cow's milk or they're looking at a formula or whatever they're looking for. Unfortunately, the one thing they can't get no matter what they do is the same microbial benefits that we could get from mom's milk.

[00:19:53] Jared: And so it is a significant challenge. And unfortunately in America now we have about a third [00:20:00] of babies are born. Through cesarean section, and a lot of women don't breastfeed either by choice or because of some other conflict that creates an issue for them. And so many of us are starting out in a pretty significant hole when it comes to our response to all the things around us.

[00:20:18] Jared: Yeah, 

[00:20:19] Loren: and those things, they're not always controllable necessarily, so, you know, if you had to have an emergency c section, or if you had production issues that really diminished your ability to breastfeed, this is not to put any of that on you. You can't control everything, and you shouldn't feel terrible about 

[00:20:40] Jared: this.

[00:20:41] Jared: Absolutely. And I'm glad you bring that up because many of these things are out of our control. And then some of us, well, I'll say all of us to some degree, just didn't learn some of this stuff early enough to apply it to maybe our first couple of children, you know, that type of thing. It varies from person to person and we all kind of come about this [00:21:00] knowledge differently.

[00:21:00] Jared: And then there are some things that we just don't have control over, period, and none of that is worthy of beating ourselves up with. 

[00:21:06] Loren: It's very easy to say what your mom said, like, I wish I would have known, we do the best we can with the information we have at the time, but hopefully this conversation is really lighting up some bulbs in your head, even if this isn't the past for you, making some connections on what you're dealing with currently and providing some.

[00:21:26] Loren: Context clues and maybe some closure as to why things, you know, are happening the way they are for you right now. And at least that's helpful too. But hopefully, you know, if you do have the opportunity to consider the type of birth you're going to have, or breastfeeding as an option for nourishing your child in many ways, this is information that can help you navigate those kinds of decisions a little bit better too.

[00:21:50] Loren: Thanks for breaking that down, Jared. That was really, really helpful. And I think it's amazing how... The microbiome just, there's so many [00:22:00] different inputs and it's just amazing that it starts at birth and it's a birth in itself almost. The birth of your microbiome happens at birth as well and it's beautiful.

[00:22:10] Jared: Yeah, because they are also living things in there, right? 

[00:22:13] Loren: Exactly, yeah. So I guess my next question would be, because I'm sure many members of the audience are wondering, how can you actually tell if your microbiome is healthy or imbalanced? 

[00:22:26] Jared: I love that question because I do think that just like what we said about mom's milk and kind of what we look at it as, and sometimes forget the bacterial component to it, when we look at the gut microbiome, because most people again do associate the microbiome almost strictly with what's going on in the gut, but it isn't.

[00:22:46] Jared: It's so much more than that. I think the assumption I hear from a lot of the people that I talk to is that if I don't have a quote unquote gut problem, then I probably am okay with my microbiome. In other words, I don't get chronic diarrhea. I'm not [00:23:00] constipated. I don't have IBS symptoms or these types of things.

[00:23:04] Jared: So I'm in good shape. But I will say that the microbiome plays such a wide role in human health and that we literally couldn't live without this thing, all these other bacteria in and on our bodies that we really have to look much further than just gut type symptoms. When we're asking the question. How do we know if we're imbalanced?

[00:23:24] Jared: So the first thing I'll say is we'll go back right to the start and say, if you were a C section baby, if you weren't breastfed for at least a year to 15 months, based on the research I've read or both, or if you were given antibiotics during the first four years of life, then you probably have a microbiome insufficiency on some level and potentially a pretty big one.

[00:23:45] Jared: So even if you're not necessarily able to point at specific symptoms, you probably have some issues there. So that's first, but when we're looking at symptomology, I mean, we could do an entire podcast. We could do your entire season of podcasts on the symptoms that [00:24:00] can come from a weak microbiome. But the big ones, I would say, are definitely gut.

[00:24:03] Jared: You have to look at that stuff. If you've got gut related stuff, then it's a pretty safe assumption that your microbiome could use some work. But also, mental health is one of my favorite ones to point out. It's a huge factor. If someone comes to me at my shop, and they ask me about anxiety or depression or even seasonal affective disorder or attention deficit or bipolar.

[00:24:26] Jared: I mean, you can pick the D, the disorder that somebody might be asking me about. One of the first questions I ask is, let's talk about your microbiome. And I asked those questions that we talked about at the very beginning, because we know a lot more about mental health and the microbiome than we ever did before.

[00:24:42] Jared: And there's even a new term known as psychobiotics, which are probiotics that we now have clinical evidence impact mental health, reduce anxiety, reduce depression, you know, things like that. So if there are mental health concerns, including [00:25:00] significant issues like Autism and things like that. The microbiome is always a place to look 100 percent of the time, because I don't believe that anybody with significant mental health issues doesn't also have microbiome issues.

[00:25:13] Jared: You can look at immunity. If you get chronic infections, if you're someone who gets strep throat. twice a year, every year. If you're someone who gets urinary tract infections, two or three or four times a year, if you're someone who gets ear infections or pink eye or chronic bronchitis or annual bronchitis or pneumonia, every time the seasons change any of those types of things, your microbiome ought to be the big defender against those things.

[00:25:40] Jared: And so if you're not defending yourself very well, then odds are your microbiome isn't as. Complete as it could be and not able to defend you. So those are, I guess, the big ones that I point out. There are again, many other things we could talk about, but it could take up the whole show, but those are the big ones that I always ask people to pay attention to.

[00:25:58] Loren: Yeah, I think those [00:26:00] are really, really important and I feel like the mental health side of things often goes by the wayside almost, you know, it's not something that people think of immediately, but it is very much there in the literature, and we're learning more and more every day. If you've heard of the gut brain axis, This is also what Jared is referring to.

[00:26:23] Loren: And really, your mood can be highly influenced by your gut microbiome, but also just your microbiome in general as well. And it doesn't just stop at the gut. It is Your vaginal microbiome, your skin microbiome, your oral microbiome. There are so many aspects to your microbiome in general, and I think that that plays a huge role in, you know, things like chronic infections, depending on where they're happening.

[00:26:52] Loren: That is a microbiome issue, for sure. Whether it's vaginal or on your skin, doesn't necessarily have to [00:27:00] be, like, A flu or a cold, it could express itself as a candida on your foot or 

[00:27:07] Jared: something. Yeah, toenail fungus, yeast infections, so many different things. Yeah, 

[00:27:13] Loren: or like halitosis, for example, bad breath, that is also a really big sign.

[00:27:19] Loren: So, it's important to keep this in mind, and also, I feel like skin issues, for example, acne, rosacea, dandruff, psoriasis, the body has a way of expressing what's going on on the inside externally as well, but also, that could be very well having to do with your skin barrier, which is part of your... Skin microbiome too, so the list goes on.

[00:27:46] Loren: But I would love to dig into a little bit of what you said about, and I think you mentioned this earlier, but hormones and the microbiome, and I am obviously very invested in [00:28:00] hormone health, dealing with fertility, but I would love to hear your take on how the microbiome impacts your hormone production and balance.

[00:28:08] Jared: Well, there's some really interesting things. You know, I talked about the mental health aspect of it, of course, so we're talking about neurotransmitters and hormones there as well. There's no reason to believe that. Sex hormones wouldn't also be a part of that and how the body reacts in truth It's really really critical for people to understand that the microbiome influences just about every aspect of health It may be every aspect of health.

[00:28:31] Jared: We have to recognize that As humans, we have less human cells than we have bacterial cells in our microbiome. Dramatically less. We have more genes in our microbiome than we do human genes. So we are actually walking around more bacteria than we are human when it comes to the cells in and on our body.

[00:28:51] Jared: So if you start to think about that, then it makes it easier to understand, Oh, wow. There's a lot of influence there, and a significant chunk of [00:29:00] our health picture is related to that microbiome. But when it comes to hormones specifically, and of course because of what you do, we'll focus on sex hormones, progesterone, estrogen, testosterone, things like that.

[00:29:11] Jared: We have to recognize that One of the key regulators in all hormone, well, I'll say production, but not necessarily production so much as the influence of hormones, how well they're able to be utilized at the cellular level and how they're then broken down so that the body can get rid of used hormones that need to move out of the system.

[00:29:32] Jared: All of that is significantly impacted by the microbiome. In fact, The microbiome is the key regulator of estrogen in the body and the level of circulating estrogen that we have in the human body. And there's good scientific literature to back that up. Your microbes produce an enzyme called beta glucuronidase that converts estrogen into its active form.

[00:29:55] Jared: So without that enzyme, estrogen can't do its job. [00:30:00] So there's a significant benefit. to a good, healthy, productive microbiome when it comes to sex hormones, not just the production, but also the way that our body utilizes them. And dysbiosis in the microbiome will absolutely impact our body's ability to utilize hormones efficiently.

[00:30:18] Jared: Microbes also make hormone like substances and produce metabolites that can break down the hormones and also mediate how the hormones behave inside the body. And so from a bottom line standpoint, if we're looking at, well, someone like yourself who helps people figure out fertility, which can be an unbelievably frustrating and emotional process for people, right?

[00:30:41] Jared: If you're fixated on hormones, hormones, hormones, and you're not looking beneath the hormones at what influences how those hormones. are produced, how those hormones are mediated, how they are eliminated from the body. You're missing a big part of the picture and the microbiome plays a huge role in that.

[00:30:59] Loren: [00:31:00] Absolutely. Yes. And. What you said about the microbiome almost single handedly regulating estrogen. I think that that is a very important piece It's called the estrobelome the group of microbes that regulate estrogen, but it's important because it also Not only activates estrogen, but reactivates estrogen as well.

[00:31:23] Loren: And so, it can be, again, a balance, because you want enough estrogen, but you also don't want excess estrogen. And if your microbiome is... off kilter, you will have a situation where your estrogen is overloaded and you're reactivating old hormones that should really be getting detoxified out of your body, eliminated.

[00:31:45] Loren: And so that plays a huge role. And that's what I more often see than an actual estrogen deficiency, for example, as just really a, uh, dysfunction in terms of like the levels of estrogen in relation to progesterone as [00:32:00] well, because that's really important too. 

[00:32:02] Jared: Because again, it's all about balance, right?

[00:32:04] Jared: It's not as much how much of these things we have as much as how much we have in relation to the other things, right? 

[00:32:10] Loren: Exactly, and I think a lot of people miss that. So they'll be like, my estrogen is low. I'm like, okay, let's look at that because What's really going on? But yeah, I think there's so much to be said about that and also As far as aromatization of testosterone back into estrogen as well, the microbiome can play a huge role too, which is not fun if you're trying to keep your testosterone levels up for male fertility, so that can play a huge role.

[00:32:37] Loren: Or if you are dealing with other reproductive issues like PCOS or endometriosis, those are things you want to keep an eye on as well. One thing I would like to mention on the hormone topic too, your thyroid hormone gets converted partially in your gut microbiome as well. So if you are dealing with thyroid issues, this is another area of [00:33:00] opportunity, probably, that could be looked into and is probably a place you want to look at, if not primarily, secondarily, as far as supporting your thyroid.

[00:33:12] Loren: So I definitely love that breakdown, Jared. And I also want to dive back into the immunity part of the microbiome, because I think, especially if someone's dealing with autoimmune issues, this could be particularly interesting, especially autoimmune reproductive issues or an autoimmune issue that's hindering reproduction.

[00:33:35] Loren: I would love to hear from you more on how the microbiome impacts your immunity and ability to fight off infection, but also maybe in terms of like regulating inflammation and things 

[00:33:45] Jared: like that. For sure. And to sort of just wrap up that previous statement that you made, too, I think it's really important to understand, first off, I don't know if you're listening to this right now and thinking, okay, so I've got all this [00:34:00] information, but how in the heck am I supposed to fix all this stuff?

[00:34:02] Jared: First off, we are going to talk a little bit about that. But also, I think it's kind of exciting from the point of someone who's working with someone who's struggling with whether it's fertility or anxiety or chronic immune issues or autoimmune issues or whatever, that the microbiome plays such a versatile role in all of that stuff that if you can address the microbiome in a significant way, then so many aspects of health can improve.

[00:34:30] Jared: And you're kind of hitting a whole bunch of nails with one hammer and that's a big deal. So don't be overwhelmed as much as excited for the fact that. If you can figure out how to balance and boost your microbiome, you can solve a lot of problems, or at least it can be a huge part of the solution to a lot of these problems, as opposed to being an overwhelming thing like, well, but my microbiome stinks, so I can't do any of this stuff.

[00:34:52] Jared: Well, it's quite the opposite. You get your microbiome not to stink. You can do a lot of this stuff. And I think that's exciting. So as far as the immune [00:35:00] response, it's really important to understand a few different things. One thing that I want to talk about that is probably way less understood when it comes to probiotics and antibiotics and microbiome stuff than it probably needs to be is going back to the toddler who's throwing every dirty thing in his mouth that he can think of sucking on his toes after walking on a dirty floor or whatever it is, there's a reason for that, as I stated earlier, and I'm going to give you some examples that I think are really, really interesting.

[00:35:29] Jared: So we have. a couple of different types of bacteria that play a role in the microbiome. We have what are known as human strain bacteria and human strain bacteria are primarily in a couple of classes, what they call the lacto bacillus or bifido types of bacteria. And they reside in different areas of the digestive tract and different parts of the body.

[00:35:50] Jared: And when you look at a probiotic bottle, at a health food store or whatever, you're going to see a whole bunch of these little Latin words and most of them are going to start with your lacto or bifido. [00:36:00] But there are also strains that are known as spore forming strains that are not human that are found in our environment.

[00:36:07] Jared: And we find them in dirt and sand and soil and they've even been excavated. By people looking for dinosaur bones, they've been excavated in salt mines and things like that. And they found these things that I think are millions of years old and are still active bacteria. They're really interesting. And I believe personally, and I think there's enough research to kind of back this up, that it's those types of strains that are building our immune system.

[00:36:31] Jared: That as babies, we're shoving into our mouths. So we're getting all that human goodness, ideally from mom and from human touch, you know, with our siblings and parents and all this type of stuff. But these, what are known as commensal strains of bacteria that we come into contact from literally dirt and from our environment, those commensal strains are really, really interesting.

[00:36:53] Jared: And to go back to this immune question that you asked, and the reason I brought this up. There was a study done that I read [00:37:00] 12 years ago that blew my mind. It was really, really interesting because if you look at immune response and the microbiome and you look at the potency of bacteria that are found in most human strain probiotics or what you might find in a Jar of yogurt or kefir or something like that.

[00:37:20] Jared: They're really, really big numbers. You'll see a bottle that might have 20 billion units or a hundred billion units of bacteria to give you a noticeable benefit. The spores are really interesting little warriors because. at very, very low doses, they can do really, really cool things. And I want to go into some detail on this if you'd like to have me do it.

[00:37:40] Jared: But when it comes to this study, the study is fascinating. They took a group of people, and it was a small group of people, admittedly, it was 10 people that were part of the study. But the number of people in this case, I'm not sure if it matters as much as it does with some other studies. What they did is they drew blood from all of the people.

[00:37:58] Jared: And then what they did [00:38:00] was they actually gave those people five of them. So it was a double blind type of a thing where half of them were essentially given a placebo and half were not. And they gave half a billion Half a billion units of a very specific spore called Bacillus coagulans. That's a really, really small dose compared to humans trained probiotics.

[00:38:20] Jared: And they gave it to him for 30 days. And then the other half got a placebo. And then they actually infected the blood with Influenza A. They infected the blood with Influenza A, and they did a comparison of what happened with the blood from the people who had the 30 days of Bacillus coagulans versus what happened with the blood for the people that didn't have the Bacillus coagulans compared to what their blood looked like prior to the infection.

[00:38:47] Jared: And what they found is that the TNF alpha cells, which are one of the first lines of defense that our body musters when we are infected with something, were 17 times higher in the bacillus [00:39:00] coagulans blood after just 30 days versus the placebo blood, which there was no additional defense available. So that gives you an idea of how you can manipulate the microbiome in a way that is powerful enough to give you 17 times higher defense against the flu, basically in just a 30 day period.

[00:39:19] Jared: So then the question comes, well, how is this little strain of bacteria that's not even human in nature so effective? And this is what I find really fascinating about spores. Well, first off, we know that human bacteria, the stuff that resides in our gut. is frankly not particularly hardy. It's pretty easy to kill.

[00:39:39] Jared: Heat can kill it. Acid can kill it. Time can kill it. They're not really, really super hardy strains. Now they're pretty darn happy in our gut because they have a fairly. typical acid situation there. They have fairly typical moisture situation there. The heat is very controlled. You know, our body stays at a very [00:40:00] consistent temperature on a regular basis.

[00:40:02] Jared: And so those bacteria, they're happy as can be in the gut. But as soon as you pull them out of the gut and then try and get them back into a human body, all kinds of bad things can potentially happen. There's a reason why most probiotics are refrigerated, for instance, probiotic supplements, because heat can kill them.

[00:40:18] Jared: But also our stomach is this amazing weapon for the prevention of infection as well. It's not just known as a stomach, but it's also known as the acid barrier. And there's a reason why our stomach has high acid. Most people think it's to digest our food and that's part of it for sure. But the other part is to defend us from the things that might kill us that are in our food or that we're breathing in or swallowing or things like that.

[00:40:43] Jared: And so the acid barrier by design is supposed to kill bacteria that's coming down the pipe from the things that we eat and ingest. And so most human probiotics, whether they are in things like sauerkraut or in a capsule [00:41:00] or a cup of yogurt, well, they're all going to come into contact with that acid barrier.

[00:41:03] Jared: And most of them are going to be liced or basically killed in the process of trying to get through that acid barrier and down into the gut. Spores are very, very different. They are incredibly resilient. They found them, like I said, that have been millions of years old and they've been able to activate them.

[00:41:21] Jared: They have their own little protective mechanism, which is the spore itself that they're found in nature and they're known as commensal strains. If we come across spores, which we do all the time just living, we get these spores in our body. We don't really do anything for them or even to them. In fact, they survived the process of going into our mouth, down our throat, and all the way back out.

[00:41:41] Jared: Uh, when we eliminate them through the bowel. So, we aren't really doing any harm or any good for them, but when they're in the gut, they do really cool things for us. They actually increase our body's ability to replicate and colonize the good bacteria that we are supposed to have in our gut. [00:42:00] And there's a few things that people have to understand about that.

[00:42:03] Jared: We should have, it's estimated, depending on the researcher and the scientific paper, somewhere between a thousand and maybe as many as two or three thousand different species of bacteria in the human gut. So if you think about that, that's a lot of diversity that is naturally occurring down there. And some really interesting stuff, too, because your diversity isn't my diversity.

[00:42:25] Jared: In fact, if you have an identical twin, meaning you came from the same mom with the same genetics, right? Your bacteria is actually about 50 percent the same as your twin. Which is really interesting if you think about that, and I personally believe that's part of the reason why identical twins are identical in appearance, but not identical in personality, in sense of humor, in so many other areas, because those bacteria matter to all of that.

[00:42:51] Jared: We just talked about how important they are in mental health, for instance. So, one of the big challenges for the human gut is that we are so [00:43:00] inundated with things that can potentially harm the good bacteria. Antibiotics being public enemy number one there, but also things that are in animal feed that we then eat, things like glyphosate that's sprayed all over the crops that we then eat, which is a human antibiotic.

[00:43:17] Jared: So even when you're not on an antibiotic, in many cases, you're taking antibiotics from the animals that you're eating or the milk that you're drinking or the plants that you're eating that have been sprayed with this stuff. So most of us are going to be in a deficit and if you take a supplement or you eat sauerkraut or those types of things that could potentially help build it back up you're never going to get two or three thousand different strains.

[00:43:39] Jared: you're typically going to get 10, 15, 20, maybe 30 or 40 strains. The biggest one I know on the entire marketplace right now has a hundred different strains. And what we've learned through the Human Microbiome Project is that the number of strains matters a lot. The diversity of strains matters a lot. In fact, it's [00:44:00] exactly what we talked about with hormones.

[00:44:01] Jared: It's not as much how many as how many different kinds and what's the balance look like in that picture. And the commensal strains, these spore strains that we can get from our environment if we choose to, to some degree, those strains go into the gut and they do a variety of things. But the two biggest things that they do is they actually release natural, I'm going to call them antibiotics, but they're not the same as the pharmaceutical antibiotics we're talking about, but things that will fight against pathogenic things that are in our gut.

[00:44:29] Jared: Parasites, mold, fungus, yeast, negative bacteria that might hurt us. Things like E. coli and that kind of thing. And they create an environment that is conducive to the rebuilding and colonization of the good bacteria in the gut. And then they leave. They don't actually colonize inside our gut. They just go in there, do their job, and then they leave.

[00:44:49] Jared: And what. is so powerful about that is that they're influencing the regrowth of all of the good guys. So we're getting much more of a balanced regrowth of the [00:45:00] bacteria that belongs there, meaning that we're maintaining more of a true diversity than if we were trying to influence it by just adding a few strains of.

[00:45:08] Jared: human bacteria into the gut. And because of that, I believe that's why the immune response from spores is so powerful is because you can get this wide ranging benefit of not only improving the numbers, essentially building more soldiers, but building all the different types of soldiers that we need. And when you look at your question about auto immunity, Most people, including myself, that have looked into this, I think, on the more natural and alternative side of the coin anyway, will say that autoimmune response almost always starts with gut permeability issues, gut microbiome issues.

[00:45:45] Jared: The gut is pretty hammered before autoimmunity tends to take place.

[00:45:54] Loren: Hey everyone, it's Lauren, just giving you a quick moment to take a break from this very stimulating conversation. I [00:46:00] want to remind you about all the resources you can take advantage of, including Conscious Conception, my pregnancy prep e course, where you can learn the exact steps to resolve your gut and vaginal microbiome imbalances.

[00:46:10] Loren: And optimize them for pregnancy so you can avoid things like group B strep and pass down the health wealth to your baby. Visit innate fertility.org/get-pregnant for more information, and if you're loving the show, don't forget to leave a review now. Back to the episode. Yeah. Oh, thank you so much for that, Jared.

[00:46:30] Loren: I think it speaks volumes to the power of spores, and I think that those are often really overlooked. Well, maybe in the conventional wellness space, more of the alternative wellness space, I feel like that's really catching on, and I've seen great results with my clients and on myself as well with spore based probiotics, I think they're amazing, and I love how you were able to speak to the immunity aspect of it.

[00:46:59] Loren: I've [00:47:00] also read that they increase polyphenol production in the gut as well, and I wonder if that has anything to do with the sort of effect on the immune system and anti oxidation and sort of like quelling the inflammation that could be going 

[00:47:12] Jared: on there. What's fascinating about the microbiome, Lauren, in my opinion, is that we know way more than we knew 10 years ago and 20 years ago and 30 years ago, but what we know versus what I think we're going to learn is really small.

[00:47:26] Jared: There's so much research happening in this space, and we're just going to learn more and more the power of a microbiome. And you're right. Yeah, the polyphenol production is interesting. spore probiotics that are actually considered antioxidants, not because they are themselves an antioxidant because they influence antioxidant production inside the gut, which is awesome because that antioxidant benefit of course has all types of anti aging benefits, immune regulating benefits, but also anti inflammatory benefits.

[00:47:56] Jared: And when you look at the human gut that is in trouble, [00:48:00] inflammation at the gut level is a huge factor in the dysbiosis that they're experiencing. 

[00:48:05] Loren: Yeah, absolutely. For those that have never heard this, the gut is where 70 80 percent of the immune system is housed, so 75 percent essentially, which is why it plays such a big role in immunity and what Jared was saying about So starting Leakiness and gut permeability, absolutely, that plays a huge role in terms of creating autoimmune sort of dysfunction.

[00:48:30] Loren: I myself have dealt with autoimmunity. I had shingles at age 8 as well. So, having gone through that and now knowing what I know as well, I'm just like, what was going on there? I'm doing a little bit of reconnaissance on myself at that age, but it's just really fascinating to see how things can sort of unfold from there.

[00:48:56] Loren: But yeah, and what you were saying about the antibiotic [00:49:00] effects of things like glyphosate, et cetera, I think hormonal birth control is also a really big one that a lot of people don't realize. And I myself developed Candida overgrowth on hormonal birth control. And My doctors didn't think anything of it.

[00:49:18] Loren: No connection 

[00:49:19] Jared: whatsoever. Yeah, the two things are completely unrelated. 

[00:49:23] Loren: Thanks for breaking that down. I think there's so many directions we could go in, but maybe we'll save a bunch of different ones for the next conversation. But that said, I'd love to. maybe expand upon antibiotics. So you touched on this and I'd love to know more about the impacts of antibiotics and for those that are more holistically minded, if there are any other sort of things you can take to fight off infections that typically, you know, an antibiotic would be recommended 

[00:49:52] Jared: for.

[00:49:52] Jared: Well, first off, on the antibiotic thing, it's crazy to me that the AMA, the American Medical Association, the FDA, [00:50:00] the CDC have all released essentially warning letters to people who practice medicine in this country, doctors saying, hey, you gotta slow down the antibiotic use, we're using way too many of these things, and yet Nothing's changing near as I can tell.

[00:50:15] Jared: An example of that that is really important to understand is that 85 percent of sinus infections in America are not bacterial infections. They're fungal, they're viral, there's something going on, but it's not a bacterial infection. We know that. But if you go to your doctor and you say, I've got a sinus infection, you are 85 percent of the time going to leave with an antibiotic prescription.

[00:50:40] Jared: And this is the part where I don't fault the patient, but absolutely fault the doctor in this case. And that is that the patient takes the antibiotic and within 7 to 10 days, on average, a non bacterial sinus infection will correct [00:51:00] itself. The body will fight it off all by itself, whether you have an antibiotic or not.

[00:51:05] Jared: But because the patient's on an antibiotic, they equate the antibiotic to the cure. Even though the body would have cured it without the antibiotic in almost every case anyway. And so then, they believe in their mind, and rightfully so, Hey, I took the antibiotic, I got better, the antibiotic worked. The conversation I believe they ought to be having with their doctor is, and this should be initiated by the doctor, I think, is, Hey, guess what?

[00:51:30] Jared: You've got a sinus infection. It's probably not bacterial. So let's not give you an antibiotic because it'll probably correct itself anyway. And yeah, it's no fun having a sinus infection, but it's a whole lot less fun having an autoimmune condition after you've had five antibiotics for sinus infections over the last couple of years.

[00:51:47] Jared: And when you look at how all that works, we start to recognize that antibiotics are overused in ways that you can't even imagine in this country. And to give you an example, and this is, I guess you could call it a humble brag or whatever, but it's really just because [00:52:00] my parents knew what they were doing when a lot of people didn't.

[00:52:03] Jared: I never had an antibiotic as a child ever. In fact, the first antibiotic I ever had was as a 45 year old for a surgical procedure that they wouldn't let me not have one. And that was the first time at 45 years old. And it's not because I'm like hyper healthy and just super robust and nothing ever gets me down.

[00:52:20] Jared: It's just because I have actually learned. Lots of methods to treat these things that don't require antibiotics. I've had sinus infections, I've had bronchitis, I've had all of these things that people use antibiotics for. And in my book, antibiotics ought to be looked largely as life saving tools because they absolutely are that in the right case, but to knock out.

[00:52:43] Jared: Simple things that the body probably will knock out on its own. And if not, can be knocked out with a little bit of herbal medicine or something like that. We really are missing the boat on that in a big way. And that's leading to things like MRSA, antibiotic resistant infections, which we could talk about for an hour or two.

[00:52:59] Jared: [00:53:00] So one of my examples that I love to point out because sinus infections are so. common in this country. I'm going to talk about two if we've got time Loren. Urinary tract infections and sinus infections. The thing that I recommend for sinus infections does get a bad rap from some people. I guess I'll argue with them because I think it's the best thing out there, but colloidal silver I believe is an absolutely wonderful tool for sinus infections, and there's two reasons why.

[00:53:25] Jared: You don't have to use it regularly. You can use it only when you have an infection and you can literally spot treat the infection, meaning you can shoot it right up into the nostril and it will be wherever the thing is that's creating the infection is in that sinus cavity. If you think about the sinus cavity, it's a really interesting little place because I believe personally, and there's some research to back this up, but I don't think it's really.

[00:53:46] Jared: Super proven just yet that most chronic sinus infections are probably fungal. And the reason I believe that is actually pretty simple because if you get a sinus infection, if you're a typical American who gets a sinus infection, you're [00:54:00] probably going to get an antibiotic if you go to your doctor. When you get an antibiotic, it wipes out much of the bacteria, the good defensive bacteria that typically would reside in the sinus cavity.

[00:54:11] Jared: And of course also in the gut. So your immune response as a whole goes down, but also this little place up above our nose or behind our nose, that sinus cavity is moist. It's warm and it's dark. It is the best environment for fungus to thrive that you could possibly imagine. And so if that area is not lined with all the good guys that are going to prevent fungus from overgrowth, then absolutely you now have a susceptibility in that area, which I believe is why people get chronic sinus infections, not just one off, but they get it.

[00:54:43] Jared: They get the antibiotic. The antibiotic actually sets them up for that second sinus infection. And then that antibiotic gets them even weaker for that third sinus infection. And it's this vicious cycle that happens over and over again. And what I've found is that people that use something like colloidal silver, they [00:55:00] can knock that thing out typically in a day or two days or three days.

[00:55:03] Jared: And remember, of course, neither of us on this podcast are doctors and this isn't medical advice. This is just anecdotal evidence that I've seen time and time and time again. And it prevents them from needing the antibiotic, and it's more effective anyway because we know that silver actually has activity on fungal things, it has activity on viral things and bacterial things as well, so you're actually covering bases that an antibiotic can't cover.

[00:55:29] Jared: Anyway, and so that's my favorite tool for the sinuses. And then what I always tell people is, remember, the reason you've got chronic sinus infections is probably because your microbiome is diminished. And so while you're fighting it off naturally, you can also be building up that microbiome so that you don't need to get that next sinus infection because your body's now got the defense that it needs to fight it off in the future.

[00:55:53] Jared: But that takes some time. It takes months typically to get your body built back up on the urinary tract side. [00:56:00] This is an interesting one too because the urinary tract itself is supposed to be a sterile environment, right? No good bacteria, no bad bacteria, nothing. It's just this clean little shoot that urine comes through and anything that gets in there that ought not to be in there, which is basically anything, can cause irritation and burning and bleeding and all the other things that come along with the urinary tract infection.

[00:56:21] Jared: And urinary tract infections in America at the doctor's office are typically treated with an antibiotic. Unlike sinus infections, in most cases the antibiotic actually can fix the bacterial issue that's in the urinary tract infection. So at least in this case the antibiotic is doing something. That's not really a placebo effect type of a thing like it can be with sinus infections.

[00:56:45] Jared: All we have to do is just prevent bacteria in the urinary tract. You don't have to kill anything. to fight a urinary tract infection. And optimally, if we can get away from thinking that germs are our enemies and that we need to [00:57:00] kill these little buggers before they kill us, because that's really how we see things, right?

[00:57:04] Jared: Lysol kills 99. 9 percent of germs and antibiotics for everything. These germs, I'm telling you, germs are your friends more often than they are your enemies. So if they're in a place they ought not to be like a urinary tract, then just. Get them out of there. You don't have to necessarily kill them. My favorite thing for that is something called D Manos.

[00:57:22] Jared: D Manos is this amazing little sugar of all things that you take a teaspoon four times a day when you're dealing with a urinary tract infection and the clinical studies that have been done on D Manos show that in almost 100 percent of cases they will Make the urinary tract slippery enough through what they call anti adherence that the bacteria just leaves on its own.

[00:57:44] Jared: It's like adding grease to a slide at the playground. And so the stuff can't stick. It slides right back out. You haven't killed anything. Your microbiome is as intact as it ever was. And the urinary tract infection in the studies has gone within 48 hours in [00:58:00] almost every case. And you've done zero harm.

[00:58:03] Jared: You've done a lot of good. But if you're a woman that's struggling with urinary tract infections chronically, you've got which 25 percent of women who have ever had a urinary tract infection in America deal with chronic urinary tract infections. 25%, that's a huge number. So if you think about that, and I know you've got people listening right now that fall into that category, Lauren.

[00:58:25] Jared: If that's the situation that you're in, it's probably because you've been Working through antibiotics weakened your immune response and your body has a hard time fighting that stuff off. And so then what do you do? Well, you can actually use D Manos as a preventative measure as well. They've done a couple of different studies on women showing that one teaspoon of D Manos, which again is literally a sugar, and it tastes like sugar, so it's really pleasant to use, that D Manos at a teaspoon per day 85 percent of women over a six month period of time did not get a recurring [00:59:00] urinary tract infection when they were getting three on average over that six months prior to the studies.

[00:59:06] Jared: That's incredible. An 85 percent success rate by taking something that is cheap, basically inert, doesn't even impact your blood sugar levels. So it's microbiome.

[00:59:20] Jared: And then while you're doing that, if you want to really do the prevention, just what I said with sinus infections, get your spores going during that process and over a six month to a year period in many cases, I'll say more often than not, I get women that tell me, you know what, I don't get urinary tract infections anymore and I used to get them all the time.

[00:59:38] Loren: Wow, Jared, that's incredibly valuable information. And as someone who used to struggle with chronic sinus infections and has taken. You know, her share of antibiotics. Ha ha ha! Yeah, I wish I had that information in my late teens, early twenties. Luckily, chronic urinary tract infections aren't something I had to [01:00:00] deal with.

[01:00:01] Loren: I know many women, probably listening to this episode, are dealing with them. And D mannose is one of my favorites for that too. Uh, one of my favorites, maybe an alternative to colloidal silver for sinus infections. Is oregano spray. 

[01:00:19] Jared: Oh, absolutely. 

[01:00:20] Loren: Yeah. I think it's North American Urban Spice, and I'll put a link here in this episode.

[01:00:27] Loren: They have a sign you Oreg spray. It can be really helpful, even if it's just feeling irritated. I like to keep that in my cabinet just in case. . 

[01:00:38] Jared: It's a little like snorting a pizza. Yeah. . . But it works really well. Absolutely. Yeah, and 

[01:00:44] Loren: it can be great, too, for not just sinus infections, but if you've got some stuff going on with like a really nasty cold 

[01:00:51] Jared: or...

[01:00:52] Jared: Yeah, upper respiratory stuff. Yeah, we saw a lot of that at Vitality. It's a great product, and the people at North American are great people. They make fantastic [01:01:00] formulas. 

[01:01:01] Loren: Mm hmm. They do. Well, awesome. That's incredibly helpful. So you've given some solutions already for how to better balance the microbiome in sort of those situations, sinus infection and UTIs, chronic UTIs, but I'm wondering if you have any general treatment Sort of tips for how somebody listening, especially if they're like, Oh, I was a C section baby or I wasn't breastfed or, you know, breastfed for just a couple months or any of these other things that we discussed are ringing any bells.

[01:01:32] Loren: How can somebody better balance their microbiome? Are there any general tips outside of the spore based probiotics too that you also mentioned? 

[01:01:42] Jared: Yeah, there's a few things. First off, I had a couple of listeners to my podcast, Vitality Radio, and it was funny, I sort of heard it through the grapevine that people were talking about some things that I had said, and I went ahead and actually recorded an episode very specifically to answer the question because I get super amped [01:02:00] up and excited about spore probiotics.

[01:02:01] Jared: I think they are the coolest thing ever. But it is the human probiotics that do all the work, right? I mean, that's what's actually in the microbiome that's doing all of this amazing stuff that we're talking about. And so you can't ignore those. And I had some people basically thinking I was saying all human probiotics are bad.

[01:02:17] Jared: They're not going to do you any good. And you only have to use spores. And I want to make sure I clarify that for your audience. I don't feel that way at all. In fact, as a guy who owns a health food store and sells, I don't know, we probably have 35 or 40 different probiotics in the store of which 30 are probably human strain probiotics versus spore probiotics.

[01:02:35] Jared: And it's not just because people are asking for them. So we have them there. It's because they do have very specific uses. So when you're looking at rebuilding the gut, there's kind of two sides to it. And I could bring this back to what I said about D mannose. And colloidal silver and what you said about oregano, where you can use these things in an acute situation where you've got to fight something off.

[01:02:55] Jared: But if you're looking at it, and especially if there's a chronic thing happening that, you know, you're getting [01:03:00] that same infection over and over again, then you really have to look at two sides of the coin. You have to look at, okay, how do I knock it out right now? But then also how do I prevent this stupid thing from recurring the 10th time?

[01:03:11] Jared: And with probiotics, you can look at it both ways. I am a huge fan of. Probiotics that are humans trained probiotics, whether it's being a capsule form or using a fermented food of some sort or some combination of that. First off, almost nobody in the world that isn't German loves sauerkraut more than me.

[01:03:30] Jared: I love sauerkraut. I love real fermented pickles. And if you want the best pickles in the world, I don't have any affiliation with these guys, but Bubby's makes real pickles and they're incredible as is their sauerkraut. So that stuff's great. And it does some really cool things, but more symptom relieving type things and kind of daily body balance.

[01:03:50] Jared: Many people find that if they take a good human strain probiotic that works for them or they eat fermented food, they don't struggle with chronic constipation anymore. But if they don't take [01:04:00] those daily, then they do. And as a younger man, when I was selling probiotics, before I had ever heard anything about spores, because the first time I ever saw a spore was About 12, 13 years ago now, my big question was, why is it that we'll sell people probiotic supplements and they'll get relief?

[01:04:16] Jared: They'll feel better. So we know it's doing something, but they have to keep taking it to feel better. What's the big idea? Because unlike vitamin C, which we know is a water soluble nutrient, and yes, you have to take it every single day if you want the benefits of vitamin C. with probiotics, we ought to be building and strengthening that microbiome.

[01:04:34] Jared: And over time, we ought to be able to sort of top that off and not have to necessarily take the supplement anymore. And that always was a big question for me. And what I finally discovered after I started digging into spores and started reading some of the research. And really understanding it better is that, and this is a fascinating, fascinating thing.

[01:04:52] Jared: Human strain probiotics that we talked about the acid barrier that don't get through the acid barrier [01:05:00] intact are essentially dead, but they're dead in a way that they just can't reproduce. They can't colonize anymore, but they're not totally inactive. In fact, the micro DNA that is found in a human strain probiotic that gets what they call lysed, by the stomach acid or by the heat or whatever other thing kills it.

[01:05:22] Jared: It's lysed and it's not dead. I always put it to, you know, the old movie, the princess bride, you know, it's mostly dead, but it's not totally dead. So when it gets through the stomach acid and it gets down to the intestinal tract, it starts to actually communicate at the DNA level with our bacteria and it gives it some marching orders and we get this really cool boost.

[01:05:41] Jared: It's a short term boost. Because you're not building anything back up. They can be incredibly effective. If somebody comes to me at Vitality and says, Hey Jared, I've got chronic diarrhea. I've had it for two weeks. What do I do? I'm not talking to them about a spore probiotic. I'm talking to them about a human strain probiotic.

[01:05:58] Jared: Getting on some fermented [01:06:00] foods and saying, Let's get that thing solved. Get the symptoms under control and then telling them, but in the background, be using that spore probiotic because that's, what's going to really rebuild it and prevent it from happening again and again and again, just like we talked about with those chronic infections.

[01:06:15] Jared: So it is important, at least coming from the way that I look at things, that human strain probiotics absolutely have their place. Spores absolutely have their place and there's just doing different jobs and they work really, really well together. in many cases. So supplementing is, I guess I'd say the easiest way to make this happen.

[01:06:35] Jared: And when it comes to spores, thankfully now, because again, I've been in the health food industry since I was a little boy, I'm 51 years old now, and we never had spores. 12, 15 years ago that we could even sell to people. And it was really frustrating back then, but with people that have like chronic issues, autoimmune issues, chronic gut issues, chronic mental health issues, I've seen better response to really [01:07:00] rebuilding the microbiome.

[01:07:01] Jared: And I know it's rebuilding the microbiome because. of how symptomology changes with spores than anything else. And the spores that I'm the biggest fan of, because I think they have the best body of research, are Bacillus coagulans, Bacillus subtilis, and Bacillus clausi. Now there are some other really good ones, but those are the big three that probably have the most robust research and evidence that they can help.

[01:07:26] Jared: Another thing that people overlook a lot of times, because it's not technically a probiotic, although... If you go to your health food store, you're going to probably find it with the probiotics, is a yeast called Saccharomyces boulardii. There's another one called Saccharomyces cervaceae. And these yeasts, because it's just like bacteria, some yeast good, other yeast not so good, right?

[01:07:45] Jared: Because when people think of yeast, especially a lot of women, they're like, I don't want any more yeast in my system, right? But these particular yeasts are phenomenal for boosting the gut microbiome and for fighting off infections and all these types of things. I'm a huge fan of Saccharomyces [01:08:00] boulardii.

[01:08:00] Jared: I think it's absolutely an amazing tool that we can use. And I personally, in the formula that I developed, combine it with the Clausii and the Bacillus coagulans and the Bacillus subtilis because I think that they just make this dream team and work really, really well. But. We also have this big question about prebiotics, right?

[01:08:19] Jared: Lots of people asking about prebiotics and prebiotics might be almost as confusing as probiotics, depending on who you're asking, because if you go far enough and wide enough and ask enough people, you're gonna have some people tell you that prebiotic foods, which are basically fiber foods are actually not great for humans.

[01:08:37] Jared: Especially if you're talking to like the carnivore crowd, they'll say, no, and you don't want to eat that stuff. And I'm going to leave that the carnivore versus raw vegan versus paleo, you know, all that stuff aside and talk in more general terms But we do know that our gut microbiome the bacteria that are in there They do feed they have to eat just like we have to eat They have to eat and there's even [01:09:00] byproducts of the food that they eat There's nutrition and there's waste, essentially, at the bacteria level, and they do feed on certain types of fibers.

[01:09:09] Jared: Now, from a supplemental standpoint, a lot of people use acacia fiber because it's a really, really great prebiotic and it tends to not upset the stomach a whole lot. But all the fibers from fruits and vegetables can be very, very useful. As prebiotics and the only thing that I always tell people about prebiotics is that depending on your state of microbiome health, prebiotics in many cases can make you feel a lot worse.

[01:09:39] Jared: right out of the gate. And the reason for that is that when the system is what I call a hot system, the digestive tract is inflamed. There's a lot of stuff going on in there. The body doesn't do so great with fiber in that situation in terms of actually breaking it down, moving it through the system. And so in many cases, prebiotics can actually make you feel worse.

[01:09:58] Jared: Some people, like myself, [01:10:00] some prebiotics just simply make me feel gassy and bloated, no matter how good a shape my microbiome is in. Others are totally fine. I mentioned acacia, for whatever reason, my body, I do great with acacia. There's another one called inulin that's commonly used. I never feel good when I take inulin.

[01:10:15] Jared: So when you're looking at prebiotics, you do have to do a little bit of experimenting, kind of figure out what works. It doesn't have to be a supplement. Most of these prebiotics can come and I think should come from food, but you know, there's nothing wrong with necessarily supplementing them if you feel like you need more support.

[01:10:29] Jared: But generally speaking, we're talking, you know, the fibers and things like that, that are found in foods that are going to really assist with that. And then I am a big believer in fermented food for the. purposes of rebuilding and strengthening the gut microbiome for a variety of the reasons that we kind of already discussed.

[01:10:45] Loren: That's such a great overview. Thank you for that, Jared. So we have probiotics, both the human strain and spore based. We have prebiotics, which I totally agree, in a hot system as you described it, they can really [01:11:00] cause a lot of irritation, discomfort, because of the dysfunction that's already going on usually, but I like to think about prebiotics as Sort of the food source of the probiotics because they're going to allow certain probiotics to flourish the more you feed them.

[01:11:20] Loren: So... One thing that I think is important to keep in mind if you are doing a restrictive diet, it's kind of like, if you don't use it, the strains of probiotics that support the digestion and sort of utilization of certain macronutrients and things like that will become less Abundant because they're not getting fed.

[01:11:42] Loren: So it would make sense after coming back from a carnivore diet, if you did introduce fibrous foods back into your diet, that you're struggling with a lot of discomfort because you haven't been used to digesting that kind of thing anyway for a long time. So it's a bit of a scaling. You know, you have to gently [01:12:00] ease back into things, especially if you've been restricting certain foods or macronutrients, food groups, you know, dairy, eggs, certain vegetables.

[01:12:09] Loren: certain starches. I don't know, you know, pick one, but it's really about a balance game and easing your system back into being able to handle these kinds of things. But I do think prebiotic foods, I agree with you, they should come from food. There are rare cases that I would use a prebiotic, but I think getting your system used to prebiotics in general coming from food, very important.

[01:12:33] Loren: I think fiber is still, regardless of what camp, you know, you're 

[01:12:38] Jared: in. Yeah, well, and I'm right there with you. First off, I don't think there's a diet that works for every single person. But yeah, I agree. I try not to push a very specific way of eating other than clean, natural. 

[01:12:50] Loren: Yeah, but regardless of your diet, I think fiber is an important part of detoxification as well.

[01:12:56] Loren: It will help bind to certain things in your body, [01:13:00] toxins, heavy metals. Old hormones. So keep that in mind and then the fermented foods. I do love, you know, as long as you can really Get high quality fermented foods There are a lot of foods that you would think will have probiotics in them that are not because they've been pasteurized So they'll either have none or like a much significantly less Amount of probiotics and that's something to keep in mind when you're shopping in the supermarket to look for pasteurized sauerkraut or you know If you're getting milk at the supermarket, it's going to be, it's going to be pasteurized.

[01:13:36] Loren: But you can look for raw cheeses and things like that. Those are becoming more available at the supermarket in general. So that's something to keep in mind too. And those foods can be amazing for reestablishing. So I loved your recommendations, 

[01:13:47] Jared: Jared. Can I make one more quick recommendation on that that I left out?

[01:13:51] Jared: Absolutely. I think this is really important too. We just went through this crazy pandemic thing that we all dealt with, right? And one of the big things they said was, you know, [01:14:00] six feet safe and no more than 10 people in a room. I call them all these preschool level recommendations that they made, you know, wash your hands for at least this many seconds and so on.

[01:14:09] Jared: But I view most of those as a pretty big mistake because human contact is really one of the best ways to get our microbiome. rebuilt too. So I'm going to tell you, and I'm no medical expert, I'm just a guy with a podcast that sells vitamins, but I believe, and I live by this, that getting out in nature is a wonderful way to boost the microbiome.

[01:14:30] Jared: Remember what we said about where all these spores come from, right? You know, you've heard the old 70s saying of being a tree hugger. I'm going to say, go hug a tree. That's not a bad thing. If you're trying to rebuild your microbiome, get in the dirt, play in the dirt with your kids or your grandkids. Kiss, hug, hold hands.

[01:14:46] Jared: We as humans are meant to share our microbiome with each other. Absolutely. And I will go to my grave making that statement, not because I got sick from holding somebody's hand either, but it is [01:15:00] really important to understand this. And we've got to share that stuff. What I said, my microbiome is not your microbiome, but I can benefit from your microbiome and you can benefit from mine.

[01:15:10] Jared: And it is important that we share that and we can become stronger together if we do that. 

[01:15:14] Loren: I love that. I love that so much. And I couldn't agree more. 

[01:15:18] Jared: Excellent. I'm glad you don't think I'm crazy. 

[01:15:21] Loren: No, not at all. It's very true. You know, I think this, what you just said could count for this, but my next question is what's one thing you would like to share with the audience that they could start doing today to unlock the innate wisdom of their bodies?

[01:15:37] Jared: Spend some time in nature and spend time with other people and in close proximity and all that, but I'll say I think that the single biggest mistake, if I have to pick one, because there's a lot of areas we've gone wrong in this country in terms of our health care and everything else, but I think the single biggest mistake that we've made as consumers prioritize[01:16:00] 

[01:16:00] Jared: healthcare over other people. Almost universally in this country, and we are pulling out of this, and it's beautiful to watch. But I think most of us are still there, that we are not in charge of our own health. That we have an expert that can be in charge of our health. And I don't really care who that expert is.

[01:16:15] Jared: Now personally, I'm going to say, at least if you're going to have an expert, hopefully it's someone who has more of a naturopathic mindset, who's looking at a more holistic approach. But whether it's an MD, or your chiropractor, or your functional medicine doctor, or your podcast host, I don't really care.

[01:16:31] Jared: I believe that what is missing from healthcare more than anything else in this country is the desire and ability to listen to our own innate wisdom, to pay attention to what's actually going on inside of our bodies. You know, listen, if you don't want to fix your own plumbing, hire a plumber. That's awesome.

[01:16:52] Jared: Always do that. That's the way to go because I flooded my house once trying to fix a toilet. Okay, so that makes sense [01:17:00] But when you're talking about your health and maybe even more importantly when you're talking about your child's health You've got to recognize that your innate wisdom is there for a reason that your intuitive nature Matters you can ask and pay attention ask questions of yourself and pay attention And feel it out.

[01:17:20] Jared: I've talked to so many people, especially over the last few years, that said, I didn't feel good about doing it, but my doctor said I should. And I say, why did you not stop at, I don't feel good about doing it? Because whatever it is, if you're not on board for one thing, it's probably not going to work that well anyway, because the placebo effect is real and it goes both directions.

[01:17:45] Jared: So if you're going to do a thing, whether it's natural or pharmaceutical or whatever, Get on board with that thing. You're much more likely to have success. But if you had the intuitive feeling that this isn't the right thing for me, this isn't the right thing for my child, what that is to [01:18:00] me is it's not necessarily a solid answer, but it is absolutely something that should be paid attention to, and you should then do more research.

[01:18:08] Jared: Until you can get comfortable with that thing or prove that it is the wrong thing. And when we start actually paying attention to our own intuitive nature, and we become our own doctors to some degree, I think we all win in that scenario. Because your doctor doesn't know your body as well as you do.

[01:18:25] Jared: Your naturopath doesn't know your body as well as you do. I don't know your body. Lauren doesn't know your body. But you should, if you're paying attention to it. 

[01:18:34] Loren: And on top of that, nobody cares more about your health or your child's health than you do. I think that is beautifully said, Jared, and that's a really amazing note to end on.

[01:18:48] Loren: I couldn't be more aligned with what you just said. Following your intuition and really listening and tuning in is just... One of the most important things you could do, especially if you're struggling with your health or just [01:19:00] want to get healthy, but especially if you're struggling. 

[01:19:03] Jared: Your body's giving you signals all the time.

[01:19:05] Jared: It is. It's telling you all kinds of things. A symptom is just a signal saying, hey, something's wrong over here. And it behooves all of us to educate ourselves on what might be going on there as opposed to just going and asking somebody else who's got more experience with it than we do. 

[01:19:19] Loren: 100%. Love it. Well, Jared, this has been an amazing conversation.

[01:19:24] Loren: How can the audience find you? 

[01:19:27] Jared: There's a couple of ways. The podcast is probably the easiest way. If you like what I've said here, you'll probably like my podcast. This is the kind of stuff I talk about and I have wonderful guests like Lauren on my show all the time as well. And that's just Vitality Radio podcast.

[01:19:41] Jared: It's on every podcast app that you can imagine out there. Apple and Spotify and all the rest. I do a couple of shows a week. I think I've got about 360 or so shows up there now. So there's a lot of topics. That you can dig into if you'd like, you can also follow me on social media, Instagram, I've got two places you can go Vitality Nutrition [01:20:00] Bountiful, which is our store and our website, Instagram handle.

[01:20:03] Jared: And then the other one is at Vitality Radio. And so you can find me at either one of those places. I post a lot of reels from my shows, so you can get a little bit of a taste of what the show might be about. Before you listen to the whole show. And then our website is vitalitynutrition. com. And we do have a chat feature on the website that a lot of people like where you can actually ask questions about what you're seeing on the site.

[01:20:24] Jared: And we'll typically get back to you right away or within a couple of hours anyway, and are happy to do that. And the last thing I'll tell you is if you want to call and actually talk to somebody about what we do, 801 292 6662 is the phone number. Oh, 

[01:20:38] Loren: amazing. So many ways to get support from you. Awesome.

[01:20:42] Loren: That is awesome. Well, everyone go follow Jared, go check him out, go check out his podcast. It's really awesome. And thank you so, so much, Jared, for being here 

[01:20:52] Jared: today. Absolutely. Thank you. It was an absolute pleasure. And I can't wait to interview you again. Awesome. We'll 

[01:20:59] Loren: talk soon. [01:21:00] 

[01:21:00] Jared: Thank you.

[01:21:04] Loren: Thank you so much for listening to the Innate Wisdom podcast. If you enjoyed today's episode, please leave us a review and share the podcast with someone who you think might benefit. If you're new here, we can't recommend enough that you take advantage of my free resources like the Get Pregnant Yesterday Checklist, Psycholiteracy Guide, Prenatal Primer, and Sperm Booster Manual.

[01:21:23] Loren: And if you're trying to conceive now or in the near future, I invite you to join my Pregnancy Prep eCourse, Conscious Inception. Make sure to follow me on Instagram too, at innate underscore fertility, and consider joining my newsletter to receive exclusive content related to fertility and so much more.

[01:21:39] Loren: A friendly reminder, the content shared on This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be a substitute for the advice provided by your doctor or other healthcare professional. It is not intended to be, nor does it constitute healthcare or medical advice.